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Gus67
User

Nov 28, 2009, 5:22 PM

Post #26 of 44 (2339 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to]	Can't Post

You only got "gruel" on special occasions... Wink

Ron.M
Veteran

Nov 28, 2009, 8:00 PM

Post #27 of 44 (2335 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gus67;....

Please don't get your shorts in a snit !!!!...Calm down,sir....

A little enlightenment to your post:.....

Quote

Where was the post about the "slamming of optics,ect ect,bowl of rice..yada yada..ect" post? mrpainter has never worked in an electro optical manufacturing environment.

That would be in post #14 on Nov,28 , where he brought it up & I copied it in post #21....& he was talking about a mirror....I personally don't give 2 flips whether anyone worked in optics or not....Including you....I'm interested in your electronic background....If you are involved in optics , lasers OR anything other than electronics , I COMMEND you , but this IS a TV FORUM....

Quote

I have also been known to get angry when they did not give me my bowl of rice at the end of the day...

Don't let anything here bother you.....
In case you hadn't noticed mrpainter has created a discussion & bailed....
Time for ALL of us to give up the ghost on the topic of optics & move back on to the TV coolant change....
When you get the coollant & change it OR if you need further help , post it....

That's my opinion.....Good Day.....

Later....Ron.M..... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Gus67
User

Nov 28, 2009, 9:00 PM

Post #28 of 44 (2328 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to]	Can't Post

It's all in good fun.. Smile

Sometimes I come across angry..it's a gift of mine,unfortunatly I also look angry in person as well,but I am really a fun guy..misunderstood both verbaly,visualy and in written form.You have to know me to understand.My wife always laughs at me when I get involved in these forums..she always asks..who did you p**s off now? It's always someone...everytime...

I have all the knowlege I feel I need to proceed.Unfortunatly I do not have the coolant,so it will have to wait till next weekend.

Ron.M
Veteran

Nov 28, 2009, 9:49 PM

Post #29 of 44 (2324 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gus67;....

Some of it didn't sound/read like it was in good fun....
But , that's neither here nor there....
Time to move on...
Will be looking forward to next weekend's post...
Till then , have a GREAT weekend & week.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

mrpainter
New User

Nov 29, 2009, 9:45 AM

Post #30 of 44 (2316 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to]	Can't Post

I did actually read all these first. But thank you any way

mrpainter
New User

Nov 29, 2009, 9:58 AM

Post #31 of 44 (2315 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to]	Can't Post

I never bail on a good discussion. I am sorry If I have affendended anyone in my discussion. When refering to the optics I though from your comment that you were worried about removing the mirror in the back and not aligning it correctly when putting it back in, that being why you were saying to remove the front screen to remove the crt's for coolant change. My misunderstanding. I was just infering it was easier to whip the back off and pull the mirror out to get to the guts was a whole lot easier. Anyway yes "GAS" is about $6 bucks a gallon in Australia and coolant for TVs is $100 for 500mil (quick calculation $200 for 1 litre x 4.5 = $900 a gallon ). Hence the reason for the mineral oil discussion which lead to other things etc etc.......... anyway have a lovely day

Gus67
User

Dec 7, 2009, 4:23 AM

Post #32 of 44 (2272 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55p935217 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well alrighty then....

I finaly got to dig into the tv today a little.I decided on leaving the guns in their place and change the fluid by draining them with a old acetone squirt bottle I had.After looking at where they were,it would have been way more work than I needed to do.It was relativly easy to get to and to clean.So I opted to leave them in and take my chances.

I changed the blue and green fluids.Man,what a difference..The whole thing took a few hours and the results were awesome.Besides some minor( And I mean minor) green around the bottom edges the picture is perfect.The blue was horrible and the green was not so bad.I may change the red next weekend even though it was relativly clean.It did appaear to have some of the "nasty" on the face of the crt,not a lot,but some.I will change it regardless.

My only question is:
Is there an operator level convergence setup? I got to the ones in the menu but assume they are customer set up features,not technician level controls.I was wondering if there is one thats more in depth than that.I do not have a manual for the tv so I am in the dark on all of the features it has.

I assume Ron would know....Ron? Smile

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 7, 2009, 8:28 PM

Post #33 of 44 (2259 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gus67;....

Quote

Is there an operator level convergence setup?

OPERATOR , operator ??? .....Hmmm....
If you mean "customer" , then you're it..... Wink

....
If you mean "Technician level" OR "Factory" Menu , Yes , there is....

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I got to the ones in the menu but assume they are customer set up features,not technician level controls.

Ahhh !!...Now we're getting somewhere.... Laugh

...

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I was wondering if there is one thats more in depth than that.I do not have a manual for the tv so I am in the dark on all of the features it has.

FEATURES ???.... Don't you mean "Owner's Manual" .....Link below...

http://retrevo.com/...ual/id/446ag315/t/2/

Select "User Guide for Philips 55PP9352 / 60PP9352 "

A "Service Manual" is for repair Tech's...
IF your convergence is "good" or "OK" , then you don't need to go &
mess with something that could give you a bigger problem....

Link for convergence proceedure for your TV:...

http://retrevo.com/...myTrevo.jsp?page=man

Select;.==>..."Install Guide for Philips 55PP9352"

When you open the file , go to page 8 for advanced
convergence proceedure....

Quote

Besides some minor( And I mean minor) green around the bottom edges the picture is perfect.

Check & make SURE your fluid level IS correct...

Good Luck & Have Fun... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Gus67
User

Dec 7, 2009, 9:32 PM

Post #34 of 44 (2257 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron,

I want to go into the setup for 2 reasons.

1) sheer curiosity...

2) to confirm everything is correct before I change the red fluid.

Changing the fluid did change the convergence,even though the crt's were not removed.I would believe that the convergence has many factors involved with it (position of that fish eye lens,torque of the screws,ect)

The slight shadow of green I believe is from a spot on that fisheye lens I found when it was apart.There was a slight hazing in the edge of the lens.I can assume that is the culprit,or maybe (I assume you think as well) the fluid was a little lower than I thought.

I will double check my levels tonight before I close it up.I left it open to check for leaks.As of this morning it was leak free.I will Vacuum it and close it up tonight after work.

Regardless,that lens in all practicality should have been changed,so I could either live with the slight imperfection,or chase down the problem.I am choosing to check the convergence before I decide to either live with it or continue.

Thanks for the help
Wink

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 8, 2009, 12:41 AM

Post #35 of 44 (2252 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gus67;.....

Quote

Ron,
I want to go into the setup for 2 reasons.
1) sheer curiosity...
2) to confirm everything is correct before I change the red fluid.

Point #1=NOT a good enough reason....Remember curiosity killed the cat...
Point #2=NOTHING has changed in the "Factory Menu" since all you did was change coolant....
NO need to go there & check data that has NOT changed...
And HOW exactly are you going to determine what is correct & what isn't correct ????
Are you NOT satisfied with the info I just gave you concerning convergence ???

Quote

Changing the fluid did change the convergence,even though the crt's were not removed , (position of that fish eye lens,torque of the screws,ect)

A few posts back I mentioned that the optical characteristics of mineral oil & CRT coolant were different....
The same applies to older coolant versus newer coolant , altho not as dramatic....
Position of the fish eye lens , yes , but there is NO way to throw that alignment off without causing damage & possibly leakage....
Torque of the screws,etc, NO way !!!

Quote

The slight shadow of green I believe is from a spot on that fisheye lens I found when it was apart.There was a slight hazing in the edge of the lens.I can assume that is the culprit,or maybe (I assume you think as well) the fluid was a little lower than I thought.

The shadow could be from a build-up of crud on the fish-eye lens....
Didn't you clean it off thoroughly when you had it out ???
That lens is made from clear acrylitic plastic....
If you use a harsh cleaner &/or a coarse cloth or paper towels to
clean it , you may have caused a dull area on the lens resulting
possibly in a shadow type effect...
The hazing & spot are most likely the same crud....
Once again , check fluid levels...

Quote

I will Vacuum it

Use EXTREME Care when you do this....My reccommendation would be to NOT do it....

Good Luck.... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Gus67
User

Dec 8, 2009, 3:45 AM

Post #36 of 44 (2249 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron,
I bet you are one intense guy to hang out with...we need to meet and have a beer sometime..
Maybe even watch some television together....

I believe you are most informative on televisions.However,I still cannot help but ask you why you would think that the torque on the screws would not interfere with the alignment of the crt's?

I may be wrong in the term "convergence" and "alignment" I am not sure I am using them in the right context.

If you have a round object(or lens in this case) with a rubber gasket, with 4 equal points of attachment,and if you tighten one screw a little more than the other that is adjacent to it,(or across) the posistion of the focus lens would be effected,therfore changing the angle of the beam,effecting the convergence..and in the case of the crt,possbly causing it to leak.Dont you agree?(many variables there)

The fish eye lens is a cheap quality lens.I assure you,I was extemly careful in cleaning both lenses.The green had some cloudy residue on the edge.It looked as if someone put either acetone or something other than an amonia based cleanser on it before.(the green fluid was not nearly as bad as the blue.I bet someone was in it before me at one time)

I know wht you are thinking,and no, the Acetone bottle was emty that I used to suck out the old fluid.It had not had acetone in it ever..it was a bottle I had in my desk at work for many years.It probably never even seen any chemical at all.An acetone bootle is a general refrence we use for that vessel at work.

My point of going into the service menu is to see what options there are.I also want to see if I can get into the green convergence adjustment. In the "user" setup, it only allows the Blue and Red convergence cross.I have a issue with Green...hence why I thought of the service menu.

Let's put this into perspective here..it's a free television.I am into it for $24.91 and whatever time I have invested in this forum.If the TV explodes in the next 5 min. I am out almost nothing.I could just throw it in the dumpster and move on.My whole objective here is to learn a little about tv's,have some fun in doing that, and have something to watch when my wife is watching Opra or those cacking broads on the view.So if I "screw" it up...oh well.

At least if I post what I did wrong,some other poor bastard that cannot afford to loose his TV does not make the same mistake I do..

Oh wait... Smile

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 8, 2009, 5:25 AM

Post #37 of 44 (2242 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gus67;....
Get ready , may be a loooong post.... Unsure

/....

Quote

I bet you are one intense guy to hang out with...

I already think you are also & that's not a problem.... Wink

....

Quote

However,I still cannot help but ask you why you would think that the torque on the screws would not interfere with the alignment of the crt's?
If you have a round object(or lens in this case) with a rubber gasket, with 4 equal points of attachment,and if you tighten one screw a little more than the other that is adjacent to it,(or across) the posistion of the focus lens would be effected,therfore changing the angle of the beam,effecting the convergence..and in the case of the crt,possbly causing it to leak.Dont you agree?(many variables there)

First off , you are NOT installing heads on a car engine here....
As in replacing a head gasket....
We ARE talking about TVs here....
ALL the screws on the lens assemblies are to be hand tightened fully , firmly & well seated....
In my 50+ years of repairing TVs , NOT one EVER required a torque wrench of ANY kind.....
I therefore can NOT agree nor disagree with your hypothetical posed above because it would apply in some cases & not in others...As you said "many variables there"

Quote

I know wht you are thinking,and no, the Acetone bottle was emty that I used to suck out the old fluid.

You are probably not going to believe this , but , that NEVER crossed my mind....

Quote

My point of going into the service menu is to see what options there are.I also want to see if I can get into the green convergence adjustment. In the "user" setup, it only allows the Blue and Red convergence cross.I have a issue with Green...hence why I thought of the service menu.

You want to see options , get the users manual....
What EXACTLY is the issue with the green ???...<== Important , PLEASE answer.... Laugh

...
If it has to do with what you mentioned earlier , adjusting the convergence using
the info I gave you a link for should solve it....
If not , we'll consider posting photos....
99.99999% of the time there's NO issue with the green , unless certain other parts are changed , etc.....
There are VERY good & serious reasons ALL manufacturers left the green convergence out of the hands of consumers....
You "may" just be one of them... Wink

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jts1957
Veteran

Dec 8, 2009, 6:53 AM

Post #38 of 44 (2239 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Point #1=NOT a good enough reason....Remember curiosity killed the cat...

Careful there, I resemble that remark!

When ya gonna tell him the green is the "base" that the others are adjusted against? Unimpressed

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 8, 2009, 6:36 PM

Post #39 of 44 (2232 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;....

Nice kitty, kitty....Nice , kitty , kitty....Good , kitty , kitty....Good kitty..... Whoa ! ! !!! Really blew that avatar up.....WOW !!!!

Quote

When ya gonna tell him the green is the "base" that the others are adjusted against? Unimpressed

Don't have to now , you just did.....Besides , did it ever cross your mind that that is one of the reasons manufacturers intentionaly left it out of customer menus ????...I'm referring to both the customer & it's the "base" for the others...Hmmmm.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Gus67
User

Dec 8, 2009, 7:00 PM

Post #40 of 44 (2230 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

In a nutshell, the problem I have with the Green is....

Every once in a while you will see a slight ( and I mean slight) green shadow in the bottom if the screen.Similar to if you took a flashlight and laid it on the floor,you would see the shadow of the light on the floor,the majority of the beam would shine straight.the shadow on the floor would represent the green I am talking about.

Also

No one said anything about a torque wrench

I do have a $150 special torque screwdriver I use for optics at work...It was not used in this aplication.Using a torque screwdriver when you have no torque specifications is like swimming without water.

Argue all you want...it will effect the lens...period...maybe not enough to be a factor in this case...but it will effect it.

I consider my qualifications as a Tech average at best..I am not claiming I know everything..I do believe I know enough to go into the service menu and poke around.

You guys have to lighten up a bit...No one likes to be talked down to.If I was to put you into my work atmosphere you would be about as "in the know" as I am in yours..

You are kind of taking the fun out of it.

The big underlined no's make me feel like you assume I am lacking knowlege.Maybe you dont think so...but it definitly comes across like you think you are communicating with an idiot.Sorry,that's far from the case Frown

Anyhow,now that I got that off my chest..the TV will have to wait.I just found out I have a house guest till Xmas.We will have to figure out what's up with it then..Untill then i will still pop in and out to read some more. Laugh

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 8, 2009, 8:36 PM

Post #41 of 44 (2220 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gus67;...

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you would see the shadow of the light on the floor,

I can't make sense of this entire description....I'm having a problem visualizing a light making a shadow....DID you check the fluid ???

Quote

No one said anything about a torque wrench

True....

Quote

Argue all you want...it will effect the lens...period...maybe not enough to be a factor in this case...but it will effect it.

FOR the LAST time !!! When it comes to these type of repairs , & you do as I said , the answer is NO it WON"T !!! ...PERIOD !!!

Quote

I do believe I know enough to go into the service menu and poke around.

With all due respect , I DON"T....You have NO reason to go in there....You do NOT know enough to go in there & mess around & I refuse to give you that info...Get it from somebody else....

Quote

You guys have to lighten up a bit...No one likes to be talked down to.

Listen up here;...Even tho you have an electronic background , you did NOT express a TV repair experience history...I try to express how to do things so the inexperienced can do it correctly...This is NOT talking down to someone , it is being accurate & helpful...If you take it as being "talked down to " , tough cookies....

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You are kind of taking the fun out of it.

See above....

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The big underlined no's make me feel like you assume I am lacking knowlege.Maybe you dont think so...but it definitly comes across like you think you are communicating with an idiot.Sorry,that's far from the case Frown

The big underlined no's are for emphasis ONLY....I know that I'm NOT talking to an idiot...I'm talking to someone who thinks he knows something about TVs & apparently does NOT .....

One final thought here...
I have gone out of my way to help you out....
I have given you solid advice , info & instructions....
Some of which you chose to ignore...
If you don't like the manner in which it's delivered , sorry , but that's the way it is...
Your call....

In the meantime....

To you & your loved ones....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

......

Veteran & Retired TV technician

Gus67
User

Dec 8, 2009, 9:48 PM

Post #42 of 44 (2217 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron,

Bottom line...the tv works to my satisfaction...period.I fixed it based on knowledge that I gathered from this forum.

Thanks for your input...no doubt,you know your stuff.

For my case scenario...I gathered the information and applied it the way I saw fit.

For MY TV.....I did not see the need to tear it down to the last screw to change the 18- 20 oz of fluid that was on the top of the tv in easy reach.

You will think that the reason for the slight shadow I am speaking of was due to me not following your instructions to your satisfaction.I know for a fact that it's not the case.Like I said the slight haze on the green lens is most likely the culprit.

I once worked with a tech who would repair equipment like he was reading a text book,word for word...if the textbook told him to wear a chicken bone on a string around his neck in order to repair the equipment...he would do it,no questions asked he drove us all crazy...but outside of work,the guy had a heart of gold.

You remind me of him.
Smile

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 8, 2009, 9:59 PM

Post #43 of 44 (2215 views)
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Re: [Gus67] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gus67;......

Quote

For MY TV.....I did not see the need to tear it down to the last screw to change the 18- 20 oz of fluid that was on the top of the tv in easy reach

I don't see anywhere where I said to tear it down to the last screw...That was & always is the posters call.....

Quote

You will think that the reason for the slight shadow I am speaking of was due to me not following your instructions to your satisfaction.

I NEVER thought that....

Quote

Bottom line...the tv works to my satisfaction...period.I fixed it based on knowledge that I gathered from this forum.

Time for me to move on.....Have a great life.... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Gus67
User

Dec 8, 2009, 10:17 PM

Post #44 of 44 (2213 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Phillips 55PP9352/17 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks...I will.

you too.

I will still be around..I still have 1 more tv to fix....

oh yea.... Sly

Merry Xmas

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