Remote Control


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Nova6
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Jan 25, 2010, 7:53 PM

Post #1 of 23 (1413 views)
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Remote Control	Can't Post

I have a Panasonic Remote control that I have been using for about 11 years. It is very hard for me to throw away since all other RC came with other Panasonic TVs, VCR and DVD recorders that I bought after this TV are all crap compared to this old one. <br> <br>I checked its IR rays through a camera, it doesn't light up when I press the power button, but I see all other remote's IR light through the camera. So obviously there is no IR output for this one. <br> <br>I opened up and cleaned all the button contacts and changed the battery. Now, which component that I have to check?
[URL=http://img69.imageshack.us/i/remote1.jpg/]

[URL=http://img69.imageshack.us/i/remote3.jpg/]

[URL=http://img69.imageshack.us/i/remote2.jpg/]

(This post was edited by Nova6 on Jan 25, 2010, 8:01 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 25, 2010, 8:23 PM

Post #2 of 23 (1407 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;...
There is a small varity of problems with remotes...
Lets start with how you cleaned the pads & contacts
on the board...<<.I need a specific detailed answer to that...
As far as what to check;...
Do you have a DVM (Digital Volt Meter) or a DMM (Digital Multi Meter)???
What electronics/TV repair background do you have ???
There are a couple of tests we can make , but
I need to know what experience you have...
Please let me know....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Nova6
New User

Jan 25, 2010, 9:01 PM

Post #3 of 23 (1400 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Ron, Thank you

I cleaned with a swab soaked in ethyl alcohol. I rubbed it on the rubber button contacts where the PC circuit junction touches as well as the PC board surface.

I have a DMM and a soldering Iron. This DMM doesn't have the Capacitor option.

Don't have any electronic experience but I can follow your instruction, if you are kind enough to help me with this.

(This post was edited by Nova6 on Jan 25, 2010, 9:10 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 25, 2010, 9:28 PM

Post #4 of 23 (1391 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;......
Do you know anything about how electronic circuitry works ???
Do you know what a resistor does ???
Do you know what a diode does & how to check them ???
Did you get any schooling or do book learning about electronics ???

Quote

I cleaned with a swab soaked in ethyl alcohol. I rubbed it on the rubber button contacts where the PC circuit junction touches as well as the PC board surface.

Each of the "rubber" buttons contain a conductive material that can be removed during the cleaning proccess...So does the material on the PC board.....
Was there any black stuff on the swab when you finished ???
Was there a little or a lot ????
To determine if you over cleaned them you'll need a small piece of aluminum foil...
We'll check that out later....I'll show you how....

Please answer ALL my questions....
& I'll help you as best I can....

Thank you .....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jan 25, 2010, 9:32 PM)

Nova6
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Jan 25, 2010, 9:57 PM

Post #5 of 23 (1387 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

I know just the basic of electricity. I can follow the electronic circuit flow sequence, if someone guides me.

I know the resistor and its unit is Ohm. I know the calculation in series and parallel, R1+R2+..+Rn = R. and 1/R1+1/R2+..+1/Rn..=1/R, respectively.

Diode, I know that it allows current in one direction. So, I can check its resistance in either direction. One direction should show infinitive.

I don't have any formal classes in electronics, but reading here and there.

Yes, I understand there is a conductive material, so I didn't rub it hard. However, the swab became little brownish black. I tried to power on the remote by shorting that Power circuit contact with a wire and then with a aluminum foil. It didn't work.

In order to test myself, i opened another working remote and turned on the TV by shorting the circuit of its Power point with a wire. So, I am sure this remote has some other problem.

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 25, 2010, 11:18 PM

Post #6 of 23 (1376 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;....

That's about as basic a knowledge of electronics as I've seen... Laugh

...
No problem...
IF you have any problem with my termonology (words) ,
do not proceed...Post , ask & I will explain further....
Let's start with the LED (Light Emitting Diode)....
1st check & see if it's loose on the board...If it is , you need to re-solder it...
But don't....I want you to remove it from the board & check it with your DMM...
Re-solder the LED back on the board exactly as it came off...
Post the readings...
You said;=>.""One direction should show infinitive.""..< Not always true...
In your case , yes....
Check the rest of the board for any suspicious connections & repair them....
Use care when checking or repairing connections to the black IC (on the bottom side opposite the LED)....
A static charge from your fingers or the soldering iron can destroy the IC...
Please post a full on pix of the rest of this one;=>....

[URL=http://img69.imageshack.us/i/remote2.jpg/]

I need to clearly see all of the top side of the board....
BTW;...The LED is the clear diode in the top right of the pix above....
Also , I need the number on the IC...If you are not sure which # it is , post all of what's on it...
Do NOT use any wires for testing as you did...
Wires can scratch & damage the material on the PC board beyond repair...
Use aluminum foil ONLY ....

Quote

In order to test myself, i opened another working remote and turned on the TV by shorting the circuit of its Power point with a wire.

Why open a working remote ???...
Is it the same model type of remote ???

THANKS..... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Nova6
New User

Jan 26, 2010, 1:27 AM

Post #7 of 23 (1369 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

The LED is not loose, the solder is fine, in fact you can see in the picture as D1 in the close up PCB. . So, do I have to take out of the circuit to test it? When I test it, I have to use Diode mode, isn’t it?

I don’t see any soldering break and you can see in this picture. I took that picture in such a way that to display all the components in this PCB.
[URL=http://img638.imageshack.us/i/remote6.jpg/]

I checked the IC solder with a convex lense and all the legs are intact. See the close up view and it shows the IC number. I am very careful about the ESD and didn’t touch any parts with my finger.
[URL=http://img638.imageshack.us/i/remote5.jpg/]

No, the working remote is not the same model but made by Panasonic. When I cleaned the rubber buttons contact area, I thought it is better to short the circuit directly to test the function to remove one suspect from the equation. All of my other remote controls, the buttons have to be pressed very hard to function. All the Panasonic products that I bought after this TV, are all assembled in Mexico or Taiwan. Cheap quality junk made by Panasonic. That is why I love this old Panasonic remote which is made in Singapore and never had to press hard to function for the last 15 yrs that I have been using. Moreover, all the writings on this remote is as it is, whereas all the later one’s writings are all gone and looks like bald man’s shiny head, and I don’t even know which button is for what.

So, when it didn’t function with the direct connection on the Power circuit terminals, I was curious whether it works on the working remote out of my curiosity. Since those damn remote I have to press hard, I didn’t care if it goes bad or not. I opened it and connected the Power terminals with a wire. It worked better than pressing the rubber button. I cleaned that too but the same old hard press needed.

Few years ago I wrote to Panasonic about their quality going down in all of their products but never got any response.
[URL=http://img638.imageshack.us/i/remote4.jpg/]

[URL=http://img638.imageshack.us/i/remote8.jpg/]

[URL=http://img638.imageshack.us/i/remote7.jpg/]

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 26, 2010, 3:09 AM

Post #8 of 23 (1357 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;....

1st off;....
Those are some EXCELLENT pix....Thank you...
In reply;=>...

Quote

So, do I have to take out of the circuit to test it? When I test it, I have to use Diode mode, isn’t it?

Yes , you do...The reason I want you to take it out is to eliminate any chance of a false reading....
Use the ohms scales...
I want you to first hook up your probes in one direction , note the reading , then reverse the probes , take a reading & post the readings....Thanks..... Sly

...

Quote

All the Panasonic products that I bought after this TV, are all assembled in Mexico or Taiwan. Cheap quality junk made by Panasonic.

Just to enlighten you , being assembled in Mexico or Taiwan does not neccessarily classify them as junk....It does not mean they were manufactured there.... Sly

.....

Quote

So, when it didn’t function with the direct connection on the Power circuit terminals,

I'm a bit concerned about how you did this... Unsure

....

Quote

I opened it and connected the Power terminals with a wire.

This also.... Unsure

...If you do this incorrectly , you can blow the IC...Pleaser explain further....

Quote

Few years ago I wrote to Panasonic about their quality going down in all of their products but never got any response.

That's A BIG suprise.... Smile

....

....Not really....

Have fun & I'll see ya tommorrow.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jan 26, 2010, 3:38 AM)

jts1957
Veteran

Jan 26, 2010, 3:18 AM

Post #9 of 23 (1352 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nice image there Ron. Tongue

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 26, 2010, 3:33 AM

Post #10 of 23 (1347 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;....
S$*t .... It WAS when I posted it....
Thanks , but , I stole his image (from the thread) , altered it , joined imageshack.us , uploaded the pix & had some fun trying to post it here....But as you can see , it didnt last...
Well thats a project for tommorrow.....

Good to see ya....go to bed...its late... Sly

.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jan 26, 2010, 3:40 AM)

Nova6
New User

Jan 26, 2010, 3:48 AM

Post #11 of 23 (1338 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

I took out the LED and tested the resistance.

One direction it reads OL steady (-ve lead to its Cathode) and on the other direction (-ve lead to its Anode), the reading jumping from OL to 0.00 and back to OL then to 0.00 back and forth.

Is it bad?

I don't see any number or its volt on this LED. It is not written anywhere on this PCB.

Where do I buy one? Or what if I take the LED from another useless Panasonic remote. Does it work?

I wonder all LED use the same volts for remote or not.

(This post was edited by Nova6 on Jan 26, 2010, 2:18 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 27, 2010, 1:15 AM

Post #12 of 23 (1269 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;....
1st things 1st;....
When I ask for info or a question , there's a good reason behind it & I REALLY , REALLY would appreciate an answer in the next post....
That said;=>

Quote

So, when it didn’t function with the direct connection on the Power circuit terminals,

I'm a bit concerned about how you did this.......

Quote

I opened it and connected the Power terminals with a wire.

This also.......If you do this incorrectly , you can blow the IC...Please explain further....<<...In your next post

Quote

One direction it reads OL steady (-ve lead to its Cathode) and on the other direction (-ve lead to its Anode), the reading jumping from OL to 0.00 and back to OL then to 0.00 back and forth. Is it bad?

Chances are that it's good...
What's happening is that the LED is picking up AC from your body & because it's a diode , rectifying it to a DC pulse that your meter sees as a pulsing voltage....
OR it could be doing the same thing from ordinary room or sunlight....
Been awhile , so I'm not sure why that happens...No worry........
Because of the way your meter is acting , remove the known good one from the remote you used to turn the TV on & compare readings/actions...
Don't worry about a number or replacement at this time...

Quote

I wonder all LED use the same volts for remote or not.

There's a lot of similarities between them & a lot are interchangeable....
We'll worry about that later....

Please post info & results....Thanks........

Yesterday I tried to post a photo of yours with a question....
It dissappeared after a short while...
Today I spent a good deal of time with imageshack & photobucket
trying to get it posted here....

If it's still here , please read whats in the quotes & post reply to my requests...Thanks....

Quote

I opened it and connected the Power terminals with a wire. It worked better than pressing the rubber button.

I'm concerned if you used a wire as a jumper at the area or similar area shown in my hopefully still there pix...
If not , please explain in detail how you used a wire...
I need to know this as to determine the condition of the IC...
If pix is gone , do the best you can to help me out...

Also , see if you can find a model # on the remote cover or inside....THANK you.... Sly

......

Later...Ron.M........ Cool

......
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Nova6
New User

Jan 27, 2010, 2:23 AM

Post #13 of 23 (1262 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron,

Sorry that I overlooked on that question. I was after taking out the LED and testing. It is the first time I am doing this and got excited and distracted from that question.

After opening the remote, I removed the top half portion of the remote case along with the rubber pad. Then I placed the PCB on the bottom portion of the remote control case and tied together with a rubber band, so that I was able to place the batteries in the compartment. I never touched my fingers on the circuit side of the PCB.

At that set up, the circuits of the PCB is facing me. I took a small piece of wire and bent it like a U shape and touched the two terminals at the Power button area to turn on the TV. The terminals are very distinct as you have shown with red circle as an example to connect those two terminals. It is basically connecting those two ends with a wire same as the rubber button touches that area when we press.

The model number written on the back of the remote is EUR501230.

I will take out the LED from a working remote and will post the result.

Thank you very much for your time. I know we get frustrated when we don't get the answer to our question. I will respond properly.

Nova6
New User

Jan 27, 2010, 3:58 AM

Post #14 of 23 (1257 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

"..remove the known good one from the remote."

I removed LED from a working remote and tested. The readings are same as the one reported for the old one. Same behavior.

(This post was edited by Nova6 on Jan 27, 2010, 2:13 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 27, 2010, 11:04 PM

Post #15 of 23 (1219 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;....

Thank you for the info...
The reason I asked for the model # for you remote was to try & find a schematic for it...NO luck...
But , I did find some replacements for you...
Now , before you get your shorts in a snit , some are made by Panasonic & , I suspect , NOT in Mexico or Taiwan...
Here's a link to one of them;=>..

http://www.ued.net/...temCode=MSCEUR501230

They do not have a pix...
They have the original listed for $34.39 + s&h & it's out of stock till 1/29/10 (maybe)....
They are selling a replacement for $16.99 & availablity is ????
Please note that the replacement has a model # of EUR501230A , which oftentimes indicates an updated or improved version of the original....
The manufacturer for that one is clearly stated as Panasonic (Matsushita)...

Another source;=>..

http://www.newtvremotes.com/.../MscTV/EUR501230.htm

This is a NEW remote (with pix) for $33.95 +s&h....
BUT , the show only 1 (Whoa!!) in stock...
If you click around on similar replacements you will find this one;==>..

http://www.newtvremotes.com/...MscTV/EUR501222A.htm

Which looks like yours but does not have the LDP button...

Manufacturers Sub:

EUR501222A
EUR501222 $ 24.95 Same Remote Except NO LDP (Laser Disc) Features

They currently have 10 in stock....

OR;=>..

ERS Sub:

EUR501223A $ 19.95
EUR501223 Same Remote With Quasar Brand Name

If you click on the blue EUR501223A above , it will take you to the remote....
When you use any of the links above , you may have to wait a bit till the inventory info loads up in the right side column...

Not knowing what model TV you have , I'm at a loss as to which one to reccommend...
For further info on your remote just google "EUR501230" with quotes & check out the links for yourself...

Those are ONLY suggestions...
At this point , it looks very likely that the IC in your remote is bad...
It has 28 pins in a surface mount configuration that I think , if you were to get a replacement for it, would be a problem for you to replace since desoldering & installing the new one requires a talent ...

Here's another idea that worked for me with a RCA remote....
Order the remote that EXACTLY looks like your original...
When you get the replacement , take the board out of it & use it in the original unit...
What you will then have is the new boards in your old covers...
But , there's a drawback to this idea...
That is , in case you have a problem during the warranty period , they may not honor it if they see any signs of tampering with the new unit...So beware...

IF you still wish to pursue troubleshooting your remote , it's OK with me...
Also please post the model # of your TV so I can try to locate a schematic for the remote..
PLEASE reply , either way....

THANK you....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....

Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jan 27, 2010, 11:06 PM)

Nova6
New User

Jan 27, 2010, 11:57 PM

Post #16 of 23 (1212 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

It has 28 pins in a surface mount configuration that I think , if you were to get a replacement for it, would be a problem for you to replace since desoldering & installing the new one requires a talent ...

Yes, it is not easy for me to solder those pins that only 1 mm apart.. It is surface mounted and I don't have any pencil tip for the soldering iron and I will splash the solder all over. So, I gave up on this.

As for the new ones I saw that before, but I am going to live with what I have here now though I have to press very hard. I have three remote around here but different models.

I learned something from this process and thank you very much for the time you spent for me.

I have few questions:

What should be the reading of LED on both directions?

What kind of component is the one look like "Kidney" in blue color between the LED and the Capacitor on this PCB? Is it a ceramic capacitor? It is labeled as X1 on the PCB.

By the way, how do we test an IC?

(This post was edited by Nova6 on Jan 28, 2010, 12:03 AM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 28, 2010, 1:32 AM

Post #17 of 23 (1200 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;.....

In reply;=>..

Quote

What should be the reading of LED on both directions?

In one direction you should read infinity or "wide @$$ open"...
In the other a lower resistance...Usually about a 10 to 1 ratio is acceptable....

Quote

What kind of component is the one look like "Kidney" in blue color between the LED and the Capacitor on this PCB? Is it a ceramic capacitor? It is labeled as X1 on the PCB.

That could be another cause of your problem...
When I first saw that in the pix , I thought it was another cap.....
But , it's a crystal that oftentimes gets a pin disconnected (or broken from vibration) from the board....
Usually a bad solder connection & worth your looking at it to make sure BOTH pins are connected good...
Re-soldering it won't hurt & it'll remove all doubt about the connections being bad....Give it a shot...If one of the wires moves around while you are soldering it , check the other side of the board to see where it broke off from...& let me know if that happens...OK...

Quote

By the way, how do we test an IC?

You don't....& can't......
We can check for shorts , nominal pin volts , etc , but not for full functionality....
That's where training & experience come in & tell us when they are bad...
The manufacturers alledgedly test them when they are made...

Good Luck.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Nova6
New User

Jan 28, 2010, 1:56 PM

Post #18 of 23 (1186 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

"..But , it's a crystal that oftentimes gets a pin disconnected.."

The solder of that one was fine but I carefully resoldered it as well as other parts joints too, except IC. I don't want to touch IC's solder that I would make worse. Anyway No change.

How do I test that blue component (Kidney shaped) with DMM?

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 28, 2010, 7:25 PM

Post #19 of 23 (1177 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;.....

Quote

How do I test that blue component (Kidney shaped) with DMM?

That blue component is a "crystal" that is used to create a frequency , stablize a frequency , etc...
It is not readable like a cap or a resistor is...
The only way that you can check it is to see if the other remote (the working one) has a similar one & swap it to see if it works...
Try that , you might get lucky...
BTW:...The IC connections looked OK to me in your pix...

Good luck....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jan 28, 2010, 7:27 PM)

Nova6
New User

Jan 28, 2010, 7:46 PM

Post #20 of 23 (1172 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

That blue " crystal" component in other remotes I am using have three legs. This one has only two, so no way I can swap it.

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 28, 2010, 10:38 PM

Post #21 of 23 (1163 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;...

Can you see a number on the original & the others ???
If so please post them & let's see if I can do some magic... Sly

.....

Later...Ron.M... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Nova6
New User

Jan 29, 2010, 1:31 AM

Post #22 of 23 (1155 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

It is very hard to read, since the printing is kind of smeared at its curve. I tried with a convex lens and used my Video camera with its power to look through. I expanded its image in my PC, then I can make out few letters.

I think it is LI21GL. I am not sure about it.

The three legs one in other remote is little smaller than this one and no way I can even read it with a convex lens.

Anyway this remote came with Panasonic CT-31SF31. There are other models too as per your post here.

http://www.newtvremotes.com/.../MscTV/EUR501230.htm

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 29, 2010, 3:08 AM

Post #23 of 23 (1149 views)
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Re: [Nova6] Remote Control [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nova6;....

Looks like my magic wand is broken......
LI21GL brings up nothing....
So we are back to square one...
Do not try to swap those crystals as they will not work....

Here's another possibility for you to consider...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...TL100122224001r36491

It's an eBay item that the seller wants $21.99 (+ FREE Shipping) & looks exactly
(I think) like what you need....
Check it out if you like...
Sorry to say that I can't do you much more good...
So it's basically , use the one you have that's similar or consider buying a replacement...

GOOD LUCK....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

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