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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: Projection TV Forum:
Toshiba hypermodule

 

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bogart219
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Aug 22, 2009, 10:37 PM

Post #76 of 141 (4779 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello jts, I've never fired the set up without the hyperboard removed. Didn't know if this would hurt anything.
Just thinking, You know the original problem that I was trying to correct was when you first turned the tv on, in standard definition, the picture would be distorted for about 10 min. then it would come on normal. However lettering on the screen had jaggedness around the edges.
This is what the hyperboard repair was supposed to take care of. If I would switch to a high definition channel when I first turned the set on the picture was fine.

Now let me ask you a few questions.
1) using the video out to another tv, the video was fine.
This would indicate the tuner was working ok right?
This was standard definition, did the signal go through the hyperboard first using the video out or did it bypass the hyperboard?
2) We got HV. What tells or what sends the signal to fire up the crt's? Didn't you mention that without heater voltage we wouldn't get the crt's to come on? Have we verified yet that we are getting heater voltage?
The convergence Ic's are getting warm.
It seems like we are getting closer to finding the problem.
I still can unsolder and take the hyperboard out.
Let me know what you think:)


jts1957
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Aug 24, 2009, 4:49 AM

Post #77 of 141 (4771 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

The problem I'm having with this set's block diagram is by the time I get to where the one line or group goes to, I forget where they've come from. (Of course, I'm much more at ease working with paper!).
As far as signal flow goes it appears that you "follow the Yellow Brick Road" ... I mean the Blue lines, especially ones with arrowheads to show whether is Input or Output.
Put as simply as I can, Tuners and other inputs are switched/processed by QV01 (TA8851CN) on the AV/REM board. PIP apparently starts here. The Monitor video output jack appears here. The outputs of this board then feeds the Hyper board which then feeds Q510 (TA1360N) (Jungle/T-Chip). OSD has inputs to this IC.

Notice that they DO NOT give a schematic for the innerds of the hyperboard! Also notice, besides probably some power supply voltages, what two things do ALL three (Two I.C.'s and Hyper board) share? Serial Clock/Data lines! How good are you at "floating" those two pins (24/25) - but as far as I can tell, rest of set, especially the audio should work whether Hyper is in the set or not. (I'm suspecting Hyper loading down one or both lines, but then the tuner works?).



1) Tuner IS working! The audio lines you were feeding to small set were probably "Fixed/Line level" and wouldn't vary with Large TV volume anyway.
2) CRT needs: Heater/High Voltage/proper bias voltages and, of course, proper signal (also deflection yoke). Short of scoping for a 30VPP on pin 9 of flyback ... (we have everything else on that winding) ... but if that's there ... how come you're not seeing it in the neck of tube?


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Location: Far, Far Away


bogart219
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Aug 24, 2009, 5:25 PM

Post #78 of 141 (4767 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey jts, I know what you mean about those prints. I blew up some, printed them out then taped them together. A real pain reading that pdf.

I think I told you wrong before, because I didn't know exactly what to look for, but I laid in the dark after I fired the set up and watched the necks of all three crt's and I was able to see a faint orange glow in all three. I'm assuming this is the heater voltage right?

When you talked about "floating" pins 24/25 did you mean on Q510? How would you go about doing that on a 60 pin ic chip?
Do you want me to pull that hyperboard out, put it back together and see what happens?
I have a logic probe that maybe I could use on those ic's if the signal is 0 or 5 volts I beleive.
I guess the main question is what is preventing the crt's from coming on if we have heater and HV?
These rptv's don't use horizontal output transistors like single tubes sets do right?
What do you think? Thanks!!


jts1957
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Aug 24, 2009, 10:11 PM

Post #79 of 141 (4765 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

24/25 on Hyper. Just like anything else. 1st choice: Desoldering station (manual or motorized vacuum); 2nd choice: desoldering braids; 3rd choice: soldering iron in one hand / manual vacuum generator (bulb or solderpulit) in the other hand.

Logic probe might be handy for digital chips inside the Hyper, but since we ain't there yet...

CRT is most likely No Signal / biased off. What is strange that you did not see even a flash or dim raster when G2 turned up and/or set turned off.

Thought we've been there / done that (Horizontal output) starting around post #20?


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bogart219
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Aug 24, 2009, 11:41 PM

Post #80 of 141 (4762 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah your right (post 20). Q404. So this set has one horizontal output transistor.
I will desolder those two pins (24/25), fire it up and see what happens. Will get back to you, thanks!


jts1957
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Aug 25, 2009, 12:09 AM

Post #81 of 141 (4760 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

[url=http://www.smiley-sign.com]


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bogart219
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Aug 25, 2009, 9:36 PM

Post #82 of 141 (4754 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey JTS, Floated those pins on the hyperboard pins 24/25.
(did it from bottom of signal board on the socket connection that holds the hyperboard). Didn't make any difference.


bogart219
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Aug 27, 2009, 9:26 PM

Post #83 of 141 (4748 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

JTS, Whats the next step?


jts1957
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Aug 28, 2009, 1:49 AM

Post #84 of 141 (4746 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Need to scope the input(s), Clk/Dta, Output(s) of Hyper. My scope: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/...mages/s4/4013118.jpg


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Location: Far, Far Away


bogart219
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Aug 28, 2009, 11:25 AM

Post #85 of 141 (4740 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

That looks like a nice scope. Will this one I borrowed do the job?
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/bogey219/Picture015.jpg
Its 50mhz. Now we need to scope the inputs,clk/dta and outputs of the hyperboard. I can do this on the hyperboard socket that is on the signal board. Can you tell me what settings to use on my scope and are we looking for a certain waveform? Thanks again!


jts1957
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Aug 28, 2009, 5:18 PM

Post #86 of 141 (4738 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Remember: when looking at the waveforms pictured in the service literature, bear in mind that those "Waveforms are taken receiving color bar signal with enough sensitivity."

A lot of the following is probably more than you need to know, and I'm trying to "keep it simple." We'll use CH1.
On that scope make sure all "Cal" are kept fully CW (Volt/Div & Sec/Div inner knobs). Not sure if that one works exactly same as mine, but on mine, the digital (numeric) reading is NOT affected, but the ability to double-check the reading by counting the number of squares and multiplying by volts/div (and multipling by 10 if using a x10 probe) etc., IS definately affected.

The CRT screen has a grid of squares over its face. The "/DIV" stands for per "Major" division.

VOLTS/DIV: is for setting the number of volts represented per division. You'll want to adjust this to obtain display waveform approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of scope's screen tall (you can use POSITION up/down to center it). Under Volts/Div control is a slide switch which we'll need set to "AC." The rest of the push/slide switches (except in "trigger" area) are fine as pictured/setting shouldn't matter. (That's probably gonna come back to haunt me. ).

SEC/DIV: Note the "ms" and "us" and its dividing line between ".1" and "50." Is speed of beam= slower CCW from that point/faster CW from that point. "ms" is milliseconds and is more to the "vertical" rates (vertical output circuit & frames of video, for example). "us" is microseconds and is more to the "horizontal" rates (horizontal output circuit & horiz. lines of video, for example). Suffice it to say, most of what we'll be looking at will be in the "us" range. Set on "5us" for now.

Which brings us to TRIGGER. I have never "trusted" many of the "auto" features on my scope, with the exception of this one.
I am not positive your scope works this way, but the following is my best educated guess: Everything below "HOLDOFF" pertains to the "EXT INPUT" jack. SLOPE is whether is triggered by positive or negative polarity of signal (usually set to match the video's sync pulses). Trigger MODE should be fine where it is pictured (for now). LEVEL & "TRIG'D" Light - in moment.

So procedure is as follows: connect scope to the point of interest. Adjust VOLTS/DIV to obtain a half-height display, centering it vertically on scope screen. Turn SEC/DIV to where waveform is closest to becoming stable and/or you have 1-2 "cycles" of the waveform displayed. Then go to "Trigger LEVEL" and turn from one end to the other - Waveform will "lock" and "TRIG'D" light will light simultaneously when you hit the correct point. (This last step "may" all happen automatically).

I've got to go do something, I'm gonna let this sink in for awhile. Will post further later tonight.


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Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Aug 28, 2009, 5:22 PM)


bogart219
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Aug 29, 2009, 1:54 PM

Post #87 of 141 (4730 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

OK!


jts1957
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Aug 31, 2009, 9:15 AM

Post #88 of 141 (4721 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry for the delay, I was shanghaied Friday. To continue...

Hook the small TV to the monitor out jack. I need to find out which inputs (if any) make it through and which (if any) are being switched.

The monitor out jack is fed by pin #46 of QV01. The SAME pin sends video off of the A/V Board at PV06 pin #27, Entering the Hyper board at P540 Pin #42. You should be able to scope a video waveform at any AND all of the way points I mentioned. (There are some other components along these paths but we need not worry about them IF we have signal at all the points mentioned). You only need to check ALL 4 of these the 1st input we do - with the other inputs we do you can choose ANY one of them to "monitor."

There are 7 inputs to QV01: Color Stream 1; Color Stream 2; Video 1; Video 2; Video 3; Mono Tuner & Stereo Tuner. You'll need to hook them up one at a time and see if anything is output to either the small tv (Monitor Out) or at the points mentioned above on each of the "INPUT/Source selection" positions. Remember your OSD is NOT working. The only way (right now) to confirm if anything is actually switching or not would be as I've just described.
Once we determine this, we can decide which source to leave set at as a "standard" for the rest of our testing.


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Location: Far, Far Away


bogart219
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Aug 31, 2009, 11:10 AM

Post #89 of 141 (4719 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi JTS,
When you said "You only need to check ALL 4 of these", Did you really mean 3 - pin#46 of qv01, #27 on pv06 and pin #42 on p540?

By hooking those 7 inputs up one at a time, I'm assuming you mean the following; I can hook my dvd player to each one of these outputs one at a time then see if I either get a scope signal or a picture shows up on the small tv hooked up to the monitor out jack. Is this correct? Just want to make sure.
Thanks!


jts1957
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Aug 31, 2009, 8:27 PM

Post #90 of 141 (4715 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Those three AND the Monitor Out jack - it has it's own indicator - the small TV.
All 4 should in effect be the same point. What if the board has cracked foil from the hyper being removed/installed? But by the same token, after you confirm it's at ALL 4 for the 1st input, it had better be there for the rest too.

As you "try" to switch to the various inputs. What if one is shorted or "stuck?" You mentioned earlier about tuner 1 being tuner input 2.


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Location: Far, Far Away


bogart219
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Aug 31, 2009, 8:41 PM

Post #91 of 141 (4713 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

OK!


bogart219
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Sep 1, 2009, 10:19 PM

Post #92 of 141 (4706 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey JTS, For some reason I'm not getting any picture on the small TV from the video out jack of the tosh. I did notice when I pressed the input button on the remote and press 6, the red light on the front would blink slowly, then stop.This is the first time I noticed that light blink.
I switched small tv's a few days ago. I switched a 19"
samsung with a 20" stereo samsung. the 20" had two sets of video in jacks. You wouldn't think this would make a difference. I read that pin #46 but didn't think I was seeing anything. I'm taking that scope and the instructions you gave me on setting it up to the guy I borrowed it from and have him go over it with me to see if I'm setting it right. I'll get back with you. Thank You!


jts1957
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Sep 1, 2009, 11:34 PM

Post #93 of 141 (4705 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure it's the "Monitor out" jack?; That you've tried both inputs (jacks &/or "switching" from A/V one to A/V two) on the small set; AND with the Toshiba set connected the same as before and on the same settings?Cool


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Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Sep 1, 2009, 11:34 PM)


bogart219
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Sep 2, 2009, 9:11 PM

Post #94 of 141 (4697 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello JTS,
Well I got the picture and sound on the small tv again from the monitor out jack. Hooked the cable to ant2.
I hooked the ground clip from the scope probe to the ground (emitter) on Q404. I scoped those three points, problem is I couldn't get the signal to settle down on the screen to two or three waveforms. I must be doing something wrong. All three signals looked somewhat the same but it was hard to tell for sure. Do you have any idea what that signal should look like? Or is it like I either see a signal or not? What do you think?
JTS, could you also explain again exactly what you want me to do when you said this;
"There are 7 inputs to QV01: Color Stream 1; Color Stream 2; Video 1; Video 2; Video 3; Mono Tuner & Stereo Tuner. You'll need to hook them up one at a time and see if anything is output to either the small tv (Monitor Out) or at the points mentioned above on each of the "INPUT/Source selection" positions."
Thanks again!


jts1957
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Sep 3, 2009, 7:39 PM

Post #95 of 141 (4686 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Most likely Trig. Slope, Level or Mode why won't settle down.

If "I" were doing this I'd take a "staircase" signal from my TVA92/VG91 and in put it into desired input. Staircase signal is a gray scale pattern that on a scope will actually "look" like a staircase. Could not mistake it for anything else. YOU might be able to use for (ant 1 & 2) a Government/village access/public access or other such channel the has a certain "steadiness." "Live" video is constantly changing, most drastically between light and dark scenes. It will vary in exact amplitude depending on which point you're connected to (and may even change polarity - waveform "flips" upside down). The main thing you're concerned about (at this point) is whether the signal is there or not. Try this: connect cable to one of the Ant inputs, make sure you have pix on small TV (monitor out), connect scope to P540 Pin #42 Hyperboard Input, adjust for most stable waveform, now remove antenna or switch input to the other antenna input. (I'm assuming your set is like most where the ant 1 can be Roof ant. and ant. 2 can be cable so you can switch between them without having to swap wires?)

For the rest you could use let's say a dvd player hooked in turn to each input, one at a time, making sure it (has "signal" to monitor out and at input of hyper board) only works on its assigned input selection.
Hope that make "cents."


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Location: Far, Far Away


bogart219
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Sep 3, 2009, 10:49 PM

Post #96 of 141 (4684 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

I will digest this and try to do what you described. Will get back to you!Thanks!


jts1957
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Sep 4, 2009, 6:43 AM

Post #97 of 141 (4681 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Just put on "liquify!"


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Location: Far, Far Away


bogart219
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Sep 4, 2009, 5:19 PM

Post #98 of 141 (4676 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is the latest JTS, Hope this is what you wanted me to do. I tacked a wire to pin #42 on hyperboard and clipped my scope probe onto this, using the ground from the emitter of Q404 again. Before, I think the ant 1&2 module was flipped upside down so this testing made more sense. Monitor out hooked up to small tv . I used my dvd player for the other inputs. Here is what I got.

Ant1= input 0 on remote, picture and scope signal
Ant2= input7 on remote, no picture just snow, no scope signal like ant1, just flashing screen on scope as opposed to solid green line.

Video1= input 1 on remote, picture and signal.
video2= input 2 on remote, picture and signal.
video3= input 3 on remote, picture and signal.

Video 4 & 5 , inputs 4 &5 on remote, no picture but signal on scope. This was using component cables r,b& g. Not sure if small tv capable of displaying this?
where I got video on the above I also had audio.

what do you think?


jts1957
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Sep 4, 2009, 11:11 PM

Post #99 of 141 (4672 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

So with the exception of Ant 2, connecting the appropriate signal to each input, then switching to that input, always produce (at least) a waveform to hyper board - and ONLY on that ONE input?
So why not Ant 2 too?Angelic


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Location: Far, Far Away


bogart219
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Sep 5, 2009, 12:02 PM

Post #100 of 141 (4667 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toshiba hypermodule [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes. Not sure why ant2 there is no picture, just snow.

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