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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: VCR Repair Forum:
Toploader Magnavox issues

 

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heviarti
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Jun 1, 2010, 12:54 AM

Post #1 of 26 (9021 views)
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Toploader Magnavox issues Can't Post

I was at a garage sale some years ago, and bought a very old Magnavox toploader that some old lady had bought in the '80s and watched like six tapes on.

I've used it a little more heavily, but have kept it up because it's what I'm using as a TV tuner. It stopped playing tapes a while back.

Every time I hit play everything starts moving like it should, except that there's a faint high pitched whine that grows in intensity until the tape mechanism all throws out to the stop position. Ideas or suggestions?



Barry777
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Jun 1, 2010, 6:33 AM

Post #2 of 26 (9020 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

That is most likely the loading belt, combined with a sluggish mechanism from the lubricants drying up over the years. Very common problem and usually easy to fix. The squeal you're hearing is the belt slipping on the motor pulley. On that model, you'll likely have to swing the circuit board out, then you can see the mechanism at work. Look for a slipping belt, it's probably the large belt that goes all around a bunch of things.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


heviarti
User


Jun 1, 2010, 3:14 PM

Post #3 of 26 (9016 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll have to see if I can get the old girl a little further apart. I lifted the top plate off it last night, but haven't quite figured out how to get to the bottom off or up... so I can see what's going on

I haven't seen anything on the top side that looked bad, but I guess since I can't see a belt I've gotta check it. I am not disagreeing with your diagnosis, but that whine is a lot more even and 'motorey' than the chattery squeal of a belt.

Whatever it is that moves things along that circular track beneath the read drum seems to be working. All the multitude of little posts and rollers grab the tape and move it to the drum, and the tape is moving.

This is a very old magnavox... to give you an idea of it's age, it's chrome and wood-grain with two manual tuner knobs on the right.

I guess I'll look it over and see if I can find some lube points.

It's of a similar age with the Zenith Beta player that I'll be posting about soon. I hope I can get it to go to work as well. I have a copy of Gaslight on Beta.


heviarti
User


Jun 1, 2010, 5:16 PM

Post #4 of 26 (9013 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

I got it opened up... this machine was designed by a genius. Not sarcasm, I mean a real genius.

The bottom plate pulls off *leaving the feet* and the circuit boards are mounted to frames that swing away from the mechanism. So, anyway I got a look at the belts (which all look good) and took a sharpie and put a dot on all the pullies, and everything moved. I took a screwdriver and put a little bit of light oil on the shaft of it and used it to lube the great circular track, and lubed the worm drive in the lower section. I also ran a tape forward and reverse to each end to heat the belts up just in case, and tried to play. same result. I put some dots on the clutch, too. they were all in line when it stopped... so the clutch isn't slipping. I kind of wish I had a dummy tape.

Lubing the mechanism didn't change the problem, and I don't seem to have a slipping belt. The problem still exists. If I hold the play button down, everything keeps moving except the tape. (the mechanism can't throw out to the stop position with the play button holding it in place.). Next idea?


jts1957
Veteran


Jun 1, 2010, 5:55 PM

Post #5 of 26 (9012 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

1) 'Bout time for a MODEL Number? Sounds like late 70s...to mid 80s Matsuhita (Panasonic) made.
2) make your own tape, dummy (aka, dummy tape) by removing the guts, tape and reel "locks" especially. I've seen people take a Dremel tool and cut out center portions of top and bottom to achieve more access.Wink


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Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Jun 1, 2010, 5:56 PM)


heviarti
User


Jun 1, 2010, 9:47 PM

Post #6 of 26 (9006 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Model number is VJ8220BR01

I have one like that, I want one of the clear ones that's just a frame.

I need to see if I can get the old girl back to work. I have a tape that's a little noisy, and my dvd recorder thinks the noise is macrovision. Well, I know that particular vcr handles noisy tapes really well, and it won't transfer a macrovision signal from what I read... I already tried both my stabilizer boxes, and no go... And I kinda want my copy of The Englishman Who Went Up A Hill And Came Down A Mountain on dvd. The recorded from tv tape is suffering....


Barry777
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Jun 2, 2010, 2:07 AM

Post #7 of 26 (9000 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

heviarti,

That was an extremely common design back then, with the built-in square plastic feet that stayed on the unit, and the swing-out circuit boards mounted on the metal frame, etc. You won't be absolutely sure the belt isn't slipping until you've placed the tip of a screwdriver against the motor pulley and made sure it doesn't keep turning after the belt and cycle appears to have stopped. The reason for the screwdriver is so you can HEAR the motor pulley continuing to turn under the slipping belt, as it's almost impossible to detect visually. I'm not saying you don't know what you're doing, all I'm saying is that it's the most common problem with these 40 pound monsters from yesteryear, and even I have to use the screwdriver method after some 30 years of VCR repair experience. The motor doesn't necessarily keep turning indefinitely; many times it will stop - leaving you to think it's done everything it's supposed to do. Another thing you can try is give the belt a little extra push in the direction it was going, when everything appears to have completed the cycle. Be there, ready to push that belt the moment it stops. It's very likely to be the problem, even though it seems impossible.

The whining sound could also be bad motor bearings, which is more a nuisance than anything if the motor still works. But when one of these oldies does everything except start moving the tape in PLAY mode, you can almost bet the ranch it's the mechanism not quite completing its cycle due to a slipping belt - please give it closer scrutiny. You can find clear dummy tapes and other VCR repair aids at www.studiosoundelectronics.com

Good luck - and yes, I may be wrong.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


heviarti
User


Jun 2, 2010, 4:22 AM

Post #8 of 26 (8995 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got the boards swung open right now (it's running, it's pretty much the heart of my home entertainment system)

I wish I could post pics, it'd make life a little easier. So is it the motor that runs the worm drive I'm worried about?

Other than the circular track, and the worm drive, is there something else I should be lubing?

The tape starts and moves at an even speed but stops, then the mechanism throws out.

I'll try the screwdriver trick after I get done with what I'm doing right now All the I/O on that monster is convenient for switching sources and destinations. I'd bring out my RCA select-a-view, but I think the heads on it are going. I don't know much about vcr repair, I've only repaired about six of 'em.

I'm gonna be hurting when it comes to the beta I want to fix. It's an electronic issue. I'm reasonably sure this magnavox is a mechanical issue. I do like this old magnavox. It's tuner is clean enough to pull down low power TV. none of the newer tuners are worth a darn. I'm kind of curious about the remote control for this (the features sticker is still on the front) I don't see an infrared port. I wish I had the owner's manual.


Barry777
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Jun 2, 2010, 4:47 AM

Post #9 of 26 (8993 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Ahhh, so the tape does start moving for - let me guess - about 3 seconds? Your rotation sensor is probably dirty. You'll need to remove the takeup reel and clean the mirror-like pattern on the bottom of it. The broken-mirror pattern reflects light onto a phototransistor underneath, generating a regular pulse which tells the computer that the reel is turning. When the mirror gets dirty, it won't reflect enough light to generate the necessary pulses and the VCR shuts down to prevent damage to the tape. Of course, if the capstan keeps pulling the tape through and the takeup reel is not taking it up, mucho tape will spill into the machine.

On some models, the rotation sensor is driven by a small belt (again, from the takeup reel) and is a rotating magnet which affects something called a Hall Effect sensor. Same job, different junk to perform it. Hall sensors do go bad, but not very often. But the majority of those old heavy machines used the mirror on the bottom of the takeup reel, and you'll see the phototransistor underneath - might as well clean that too. Whichever arrangement is used, the machine is not sensing the rotation of the takeup reel. That's probably the second or third most common trouble with older VCR's.

If cleaning the mirror doesn't do it, then either the phototranstor has failed (unlikely) or the connections from the phototransistor to the processor need to be checked. The processor itself should be fine, but there are multitudes of connectors on those old VCR's, and plenty of opportunity for oxidized connectors to start making poor contact. But cleaning the mirror fixes this problem about 90% of the time.

Another good thing to do on any old VCR is to "exercise" all the connectors - pull them out, spray a little WD-40 on them, then insert them back into their receptacles and remove them again several times - this cleans the connections and restores reliable contact. The best tool to remove these connectors is a pair of needle nose pliers, with a tiny notch filed into the jaws right at the ends. This customized tool enables you to grab those connectors so you don't pull on the wires themselves. Not a good idea to pull on the wires, as these connectors will often be "glued" into their sockets with either a combination of dust and grime, or in some cases they like to coat them with Humiseal to protect them from moisture and keep them from coming out from vibration, shipping, etc.

Anyway - I'm almost certain it's the little mirror on the bottom of the takeup reel. Get to work - what are we not paying you for? ;-)

P.S. - VCR's that old used a wired remote. There should be a 1/8 inch phone jack somewhere on the front for this. Not familiar with the model, but that was the general arrangement back then.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html

(This post was edited by Barry777 on Jun 2, 2010, 4:50 AM)


heviarti
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Jun 2, 2010, 6:16 AM

Post #10 of 26 (8991 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll see if I can figure out which is the takeup reel. (with so many rotating cylinders in there, I'm dying)

I performed the screwdriver test. motor that drives the worm comes to a real snappy halt.

would it be bad to use dielectric grease in the pin connectors? I have a tube in my pickup.

I figured when it stopped working that something was signalling the mechanism to throw out. I've heard of Hall effect devices. Pertronix ignitions use that.

As soon as the old girl's back up, I'll worry about the beta. It's gonna be no fun (clock turns on, that is all)

I'll probably go in in the morning and search for a reflective surface under each thing that can rotate. Gosh I wisht I could post pics.


Barry777
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Jun 2, 2010, 12:19 PM

Post #11 of 26 (8988 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi heviarti,

The takeup reel is the one on the right (looking at the unit from the front), the one that the tape collects onto in Play and FF mode. You have a supply reel and a takeup reel. In these older units, the reels are held on by a snap ring that may be a challenge to remove without a pair of snap ring pliers. When you remove it, be VERY careful not to lose any washers that may be between the reel and the chassis, as these are used to set the exact reel height and are crucial to proper tape path alignment. You can usually work the snap ring off with a tiny screwdriver, and keep a finger on it to prevent it from flying across the room, never to be seen again.

I'd feel safer using WD-40 on the connectors rather than dielectric grease, though that may also be perfectly fine - never tried it. In my decades as a technician, I've found WD-40 to be the best contact cleaner and lubricant, better than tuner cleaner, Blue Showers, De-Oxit and all those other fancy and expensive cleaners. But if you're a newbie to electronic stuff, I would leave the connectors alone for now - it's not hard to break them if you're not used to the process.

The Beta unit might indeed be a challenge, but I wouldn't rule out a mechanical failure until we have a chance to mess with it. Almost all VCR problems are mechanical, even when they appear to be caused by electronic issues. "Clock runs but no power" could be a number of mechanical issues, as the unit could be stuck in the middle of a cycle which is preventing the machine from turning on.

Ordinary household rubbing alcohol is great for cleaning the mirror under the takeup reel, then a very light coat of WD-40 (then wipe it off) will improve the shine and keep it from oxidizing. Incidentally, you want to be EXTREMELY cautious with lubricants in VCR's. Lithium grease is a good VCR lubricant, and Vaseline works fine on metel parts - but it can deteriorate plastic over time. A drop or two of light oil on the capstan bearing is a good idea, and you've already addressed the worm gear. I wouldn't do much more than that unless absolutely needed. Good luck!
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


jts1957
Veteran


Jun 2, 2010, 2:23 PM

Post #12 of 26 (8986 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

During the 3 seconds the tape "plays" before unit "stops," Does the counter increment? Many units relied on a hall sensor. Belt from takeup reel would turn a intermediate pulley that also had magnet for sensor and a 2nd pulley for another belt to the actual counter mechanism.

"Wired remote" look for "remote" jack on panel.


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Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Jun 2, 2010, 2:28 PM)


heviarti
User


Jun 2, 2010, 3:51 PM

Post #13 of 26 (8982 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Roger that, I'm pretty sure it's the Hall effect sensor.

Belt goes from the bottom of the capstan to a jackshaft that has a magnet lookin' wheel with an arrow on it, and a second pulley ay the top that runs the counter.

When in play everything moves.
I've pulled a three conductor connector block off the board with the sensor on it. I'm going to try to clean up the pins even though they look really clean.

The tag says '14 function wireless remote'

We'll see if that fixes it. If not, I guess I'll need to test the board somehow. my most advanced piece of test equipment is a Fluke 77 DVOM.


heviarti
User


Jun 2, 2010, 4:49 PM

Post #14 of 26 (8979 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

 Well, I tried removing and replacing the connector repeatedly, and since I didn't have any WD40, I brushed with alcohol. No change in the condition, which means I need to test and see if there is a signal. Not sure how I'll go about that.

UPDATE
I took a close look at how the little board (standalone) for the sensor works. Three wires connect it, [BLACK BLUE RED] black and red being 12VDC, constant. I'm going to guess blue is signal. No idea how I'll test that. The sensor (IC6301 for those of you following along in the manual) has four legs, so I'm not sure how three wires handle four legs. I do fix computers, but the most board level work I've done is to replace a battery holder or a blown cap. I also fix automobiles, farm equipment, and adding machines.

If I have a signal from the board, then I have to look at what reads the signal, and the opposite connector. Looks like I might be swinging the bottom open again.

If no signal, I guess I must replace IC6301, after testing it. I'd clean the surface of it, but since it's not optical, I don't think that would do anything.




(This post was edited by heviarti on Jun 2, 2010, 5:25 PM)


Barry777
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Jun 3, 2010, 12:38 AM

Post #15 of 26 (8976 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hall sensor generally puts out a regular pulse that you can probably pick up on your Fluke. Simply look for a voltage that goes high and low in a regular pattern. If there is no high/low pattern, the magnetic ring has probably lost its magnetism or the IC has gone bad. That's about as far as I can go without seeing the unit or the service manual, but I'm impressed that you've gotten this deeply into it.
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


jts1957
Veteran


Jun 3, 2010, 1:55 AM

Post #16 of 26 (8974 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a shovel Wink:




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Location: Far, Far Away


Barry777
User


Jun 3, 2010, 2:06 AM

Post #17 of 26 (8972 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Finally - a tool to clear away some of my BS!
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


heviarti
User


Jun 3, 2010, 2:17 AM

Post #18 of 26 (8970 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Found it! Now all I have to do is figure out how to fix it. I was watching the signal wheel as I was testing it and saw an almost imperceptible skip twice per play/stop cycle. I figured it was the belt, so I tossed it into rewind and began hitting it with the alcohol. Lo and behold the capstans stopped. I thought 'cool! now I can open the bottom up and see what's slipping!' So I opened it up and threw it into rewind and nothing slipped. Something between the clutch and the drive capstans is slipping. I put my finger on both pullies and clutches which were rotating as the capstans were not rotating. I think I ran it enough to goad it into failing visibly. Is there a second clutch directly under the capstans? or something that otherwise handles engage disengage? Not looking forward to figuring out how to disassemble the tray mechanism, or fooling with those *very* difficult looking snap rings.

If I could get a full kit of belts, I'd install 'em, but I don't think it's the belts.


Barry777
User


Jun 3, 2010, 2:48 AM

Post #19 of 26 (8969 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

The capstan is the shiny rotating steel post that the pinch roller presses the tape against to move it forward towards the takeup reel - there is only one capstan. I'm having trouble following the descriptions, but I'll try to find time to post a picture of a typical VCR mechanism with most of the parts identified :-) Maybe JTS can help me out on this....I'm outside doing yard work, breaking in a new shovel HEEEEEEEE !!!
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


Barry777
User


Jun 3, 2010, 2:53 AM

Post #20 of 26 (8968 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's something to get you started: The diagram is near the bottom of the page, and will help you in describing the operation.

http://wapedia.mobi/...ong_Play_(VCR_format)
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


heviarti
User


Jun 3, 2010, 3:01 AM

Post #21 of 26 (8967 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok.. if they're not capstans (which navally are the man powered winches you use to drag the anchor out of the water) Then it's the two drive-lugs that engage the reels of the tape. The clutches in the lower section move, the actual piece driving the reels within the tape is not moving.


Barry777
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Jun 3, 2010, 3:22 AM

Post #22 of 26 (8966 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Just before the unit stops while in PLAY mode, does only the supply reel (left side) turn while the takeup reel stands still? Or do both reels turn right up until the unit stops?
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Barry Fone - VCR Repair hobbyist and professional FAA Repair Station Avionics Bench Technician (top level). TEST EQUIPMENT: (4) Sencore VC93 VCR Analyzers, (11) Tentel gauges, Sencore VA48 and (2) VA62 Video Analyzers, Sigma Electronics TSG-375 NTSC/SMPTE Video Generator, several VCR Alignment Tapes, plus countless Oscilloscopes, Frequency Counters, Wow and Flutter Meters, Distortion Analyzers, Vectorscope, 136-channel Logic Analyzer, Signature Analyzer . . . . VIDEO GEAR: (6) JVC BR-S822U's, (3) JVC BR-7000 series, (3) JVC BR-S500U, (2) JVC BR-S800U, JVC GR-800U and (2) GR-860U Editing Controllers, Sony FXE-100 Video Switcher/Effects Generator, (5) Time Code Generator/Readers, (1) Sony SLO-1800 (Beta), (2) Alesis ADAT-XT, (1) Sony DXC-1200 TV Camera, Pioneer VP-1000 Laser Disc Player plus many consumer grade Beta and VHS VCR's. Passionate electronics enthusiast since 1973...most anything except computers. Check out my collection at www.barrys8trackrepair.com/MyVideoGear.html


heviarti
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Jun 3, 2010, 4:35 AM

Post #23 of 26 (8962 views)
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Re: [Barry777] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

  I haven't been able to get it to slip again, and I've run a tape ff and rew at least ten times.

I know it was in rewind and slipping, so if only one side is pulling, then that must be the side that was slipping. I haven't been able to get it to slip again. When it was slipping I checked the clutch, and it was not slipping.. I think I need to take the snaprings off and see what's under there. If it's a clutch I may rough it up just a little.

I will say the tape speed sensor is not producing what looks like a signal, at least from the point of view of a volt meter It sits at 11.93 sometimes, and 5.20 sometimes... moves around a little when I hook up, but settles on a solid voltage and stays. If i'm going to read anything else off of it, It'll have to be read with an Oscope, which I do not have, an old gauge I have laying around, or my SICO model 80 analog tool which needs fixed and I have no idea how to use. I tried putting a magnet on the wheel, but I fear it is too weak. I did notice that the wheel is not making a full revolution before the mechanism kicks out. I think I'll hit the pertronix site and see if they have a pointer for testing the Hall Effect ignitions they make . Perhaps the procedure will be similar. I'll see if I can put some pics up on photobucket. I'm on a smartphone so my options for moving things around are a tad limited. If I had an sftp client for Palm this would be way easier.


heviarti
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Jun 3, 2010, 3:55 PM

Post #24 of 26 (8957 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I got a pointer on testing the Hall Effect sensor. For reference, set your multimeter to audible continuity test. Hook your negative lead to the ground, and your positive to the signal lead. Rotate the wheel and the tester should go "dit dit dit dit" Silence or a solid signal for a whole revolution is a fail. Mine works. Tried til 01:00 to get it to slip again. No dice. Found a way to make a "dummy tape".... I put masking tape over the photosensors and hit the masking tape with a sharpie. Instant dummy tape. I will say the drive and sensor run faster with no tape to drive, but that's not it either, because it still kicks out when dummied. If it was tape drag, it should have run without the tape. I may have found something else, and this is one I don't have any hope of fixing. The sector gear on the worm drive is cracked in the center, and has about an eighth turn of play. It runs one way and when the gear stops the shaft lacks somewhere between an eighth and a tenth of a turn. If the motor runs 'stepper style' and moves exactly so far and then stops, that explains why it's acting like this. A slack gear would explain why it might act like a weak belt not fully seating some part of the mechanism. If it's a lever stop, then that doesn't explain it because the keyway is not stripped. I posted pics of the internals, but copy and paste on this thing is screwy and doesn't seem to handle multiple lines well. My photobucket username is heviarti as well, so if you can search 'em out that way, good. if not I'll make another attempt at it.

http://s586.photobucket.com/albums/ss306/heviarti/?action=view&current=Photo_060310_002.jpg There's also a Photo_060210_001.jpg and they increment.

If it's the gear, I can think of one possible way to fix it... I could have the machine shop make me a sleeve and flange with the right keying, bore the center out of the gear, seat it to the flange, and bolt it on. I guess I'll check with magnavox to see if the gear is available, but I seriously doubt it.

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(This post was edited by heviarti on Jun 3, 2010, 4:51 PM)


jts1957
Veteran


Jun 3, 2010, 6:50 PM

Post #25 of 26 (8952 views)
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Re: [heviarti] Toploader Magnavox issues [In reply to] Can't Post

Picture 1 white gear, I presume.

I assume the chickens, hat & firearms are not relevant to this discussion.


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