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jts1957
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Dec 14, 2010, 2:36 AM

Post #51 of 84 (1635 views)
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Cap value IS within 20% ... It IS GOOD!

Cap ESR appears to be right at the borderline, but I'm not familiar with that meter.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

dgentry516
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Dec 14, 2010, 9:01 PM

Post #52 of 84 (1626 views)
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Ron,

Am I ready to install the new cap and NTE2331?

BTW jts1957, thanks for your help as well.

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 14, 2010, 9:48 PM

Post #53 of 84 (1622 views)
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jts1957;....

Quote

Cap value IS within 20% ... It IS GOOD!

A reading of 5.14 or 5.12 indicates to me an off value cap that is prone to going further off value....
I personally like my lytics a LOT closer to their correct value...
However , I'm not sure that is the case now....
IF his meter is reading off value on the caps , I'm wondering if it also is reading off value voltages....
We/I need to determine what is going on here....

dgentry516;....

PLEASE follow up on this request;=>...

Quote

Ideal Meter New-5.14 Old 5.12

Indicates that your meter is reading off value....
Should read 4.7....
Try the other caps & see what they read....
(3.3 mfd & 6.8 mfd)
Post results....

Quote

Am I ready to install the new cap and NTE2331?

The new cap , yes...Observe polarity...
The NTE2331 , NO....

We still do not have horiz drive & that will blow it out...

Go to IC101....
I need the readings from pins 21 , 23 & 26 With the TV ON....
Use CARE with your probe , because if you slip off a pin & short it out , your TV could be history... Unsure

...

Pin 23 is too high...
Should read .6 vdc....
Also try & read AC volts on that pin...
Post readings..

Quote

This is not the only project I want to work and learn on so if I need an ESR meter, which should I buy?

I will post pix later....

Later...Ron.M.... <B
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Dec 14, 2010, 9:52 PM)

dgentry516
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Dec 15, 2010, 12:32 AM

Post #54 of 84 (1610 views)
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As far as the voltage values and ohm readings that I have posted, they came off of my Radio Shack meter. With repsect to my e-cap readings, that came from the Ideal meter AND "Blue ESR Meter".

"The Blue ESR Meter" states "A good capacitor will have ESR less than the values shown" i.e. value shown in the chart.

3.3 Mfd 160v
Ideal Meter 3.64uf
"Blue ESR Meter" (7.5-8 or less is good) 5.5ohms

4.7 Mfd 250v
Ideal Meter 5.16uf
"Blue ESR Meter" (5 or less is good) 5.4ohms

6.8 Mfd 160v
Ideal Meter 7.00uf
"Blue ESR Meter" (4.5 or less is good) 1.7ohms

As far as IC101, no dc voltage. Got 120AC to the board but nothing else. When I push the power button, nothing. No click, no power.

Thanks
Don

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 15, 2010, 1:35 AM

Post #55 of 84 (1604 views)
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Re: [dgentry516] Need Ron M [In reply to]	Can't Post

dgentry516;....

Quote

As far as IC101, no dc voltage. Got 120AC to the board but nothing else. When I push the power button, nothing. No click, no power.

We have a bigger problem now ????...Is the fuse F601 good ???
Go back to D625 (130 vdc diode) & see if you get your 130 vdc....

Also , in my retracing the thread for info , I ran across this;=>....

That red wire has 30,000 volts (30 Kv) (NOT a typo) on it when the TV is running....
That little red connector you have on the wire as a splice is NOT going to contain 30KV !!!!
You may have an arcing problem if &/or when the set is fixed....

IF you have the 130 vdc;=>...
& IF you are not reading the volts on IC101 , try this...
Have the board with the foil side up....
Have your meter ready on a pin....
Plug the TV in....
Note what you read if anything....
Turn the TV on....
You may/may not hear a click...
Note the reading...
Unplug the TV...
Wait a few mins....
Go to another pin...
Plug in TV....
Repeat as needed...
Try this with pins 21 , 23 & 26...
Post ALL results & info...

See ya Wednesday... Wink

....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Dec 15, 2010, 1:38 AM)

dgentry516
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Dec 15, 2010, 2:18 AM

Post #56 of 84 (1593 views)
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Fuse is good.

No voltage at D625. I did remove and test and it seems to be okay.

I cut the wire. I knew it carried alot of voltage but thought I could splice back together. Will I need another flyback to solve that problem?

Thanks
Didn't realize I would be taking up so much of your time. If its too much just let me know I understand. I do appreciate you teaching me along the way.

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 15, 2010, 7:48 PM

Post #57 of 84 (1588 views)
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dgentry516;....

Quote

I cut the wire. I knew it carried alot of voltage but thought I could splice back together. Will I need another flyback to solve that problem?

It can be spliced back together , but , will the splice have enough insulation to contain the 30 KV ?????...From what I saw , NO....
Short answer , you might...
Look for a label on the flyback & post the part number.....

Quote

Didn't realize I would be taking up so much of your time.

Don't worry about this...
I'm retired & this beats anything else I could be doing online....

Back to the TV;=>.....
These checks will be to HOT AC ground....
Get that from the negative side of C609 , a large fat can type cap (470 mfd @ 200 vdc) , right next to Q601...
Look for Q601 (2SC4423)....
It is on a heatsink near T601....
Comes off pin #8 of T601....
Read + DC volts from the collector (Center pin) to HOT ground....
Should read about 160 vdc...
If not there , check R601...
It's a 7 watt , 1 ohm resistor that may be a sand white rectangular shaped part....
Should be next to the relay....
With the set unplugged , check it for ohms....
IF open , momentarily ground out the collector of Q601 to the HOT ground....
Check for ohms to ground from the collector of Q601...Post ALL readings..
That's it for now...
Have fun.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jts1957
Veteran

Dec 15, 2010, 10:28 PM

Post #58 of 84 (1584 views)
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Quote

I'm retired & this beats anything else I could be doing online....

There's always porn.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 15, 2010, 10:44 PM

Post #59 of 84 (1580 views)
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jts1957;.....

I figured somebody would come back with that....

NOT for me....
Did that awhile ago (Quite awhile) & my computer got all sorts of STDs.... Unsure

....
Viruses , etc , but no trojans were hurt doing that.... Pirate

....
I safe surf now....

Have Fun....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

dgentry516
New User

Dec 15, 2010, 11:34 PM

Post #60 of 84 (1578 views)
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Now that's funny, I don't care what anybody says.

dgentry516
New User

Dec 15, 2010, 11:56 PM

Post #61 of 84 (1576 views)
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flyback L40A00711 MSGW SANYO

170.8 HOT ground from C609 to center pin (collector)
1.2ohm for R601 (unplugged-in circuit)
0.L HOT ground from C609 to center pin (collector)

Don

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 16, 2010, 1:11 AM

Post #62 of 84 (1570 views)
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dgentry516;....

OK.....(Sorta)

This IS going to be redundent , but who gives a.....

With the TV UNplugged , go to D621 , D624 & D625 & read ohms to chassis ground...Post readings...
ALL those diodes come off T601...

Lets check the base of Q601 , read dc volts...
Have the meter pre hooked up to the base...
Then plug in the TV...
You need to try to turn the TV on for this one...
Post reading...

With the TV plugged in , check for DC volts at all these points;=>....
D621 , D624 & D625 again....(To chassis (Tuner) ground)...Post readings....

Straight question , I need a straight answer...
During the course of the time you had this TV BEFORE OR SINCE you put the "splice" in the red wire . did the TV arc , snap , crackle or pop ????

THANKS..... Sly

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Dec 16, 2010, 1:12 AM)

dgentry516
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Dec 17, 2010, 5:59 AM

Post #63 of 84 (1558 views)
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Straight question , I need a straight answer...
During the course of the time you had this TV BEFORE OR SINCE you put the "splice" in the red wire . did the TV arc , snap , crackle or pop ????

At NO time.

D621 Chassis - band end 4.72k and dropping
D624 Chassis - band end 19.xxM and dropping
D625 Chassis - band end 19.40k and dropping

All measurements would start with a high value and drop. Go to 0.L and then back again.

Q601 dc voltage -62.7 power off. Nothing change when powered up. NO power and NO change in value.

dc voltage to ....
D621 00.0 on both ends
D624 126mV to band end 00.0 to other end
D625 00.0 on both ends

Thanks Ron

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 17, 2010, 9:06 PM

Post #64 of 84 (1548 views)
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dgentry516;....

OK....Most readings are acceptable....
Except this one;...

Quote

Q601 dc voltage -62.7 power off. Nothing change when powered up. NO power and NO change in value.

Me thinks you did not switch grounds here....
MY bad....
This reading is on the AC side....
You needed to connect to the AC HOT ground....
I should have put that info in the post....SORRRRY !!!... Unsure

...
Re-read it & post info...
Unplug the TV & wait for me to reply to your reply....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

dgentry516
New User

Dec 17, 2010, 11:37 PM

Post #65 of 84 (1545 views)
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Ron

D621 19.85 to HOT ground
D624 19.32 to HOT ground
D625 19.27 to HOT ground

Q601 base to HOT ground -78.6 (plugged in)
No change when power button pushed.

D621, D624, D625 no voltage.
dc measurement from diode to HOT ground

Thanks
Don

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 18, 2010, 5:04 AM

Post #66 of 84 (1537 views)
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dgentry516;.....

The English language IS confusing , especially in print....

I said;=>....

Quote

OK....Most readings are acceptable....
EXCEPT this one;...

Which meant that this one;=>....

Quote

Q601 dc voltage -62.7 power off. Nothing change when powered up. NO power and NO change in value.

Was erronius....

AND these;=>....

Quote

dc voltage to ....
D621 00.0 on both ends
D624 126mV to band end 00.0 to other end
D625 00.0 on both ends

WERE OK.....
I thought the word "except" was understood....
To me that meant that those other ones were & are OK readings...

That said;....
You should be getting about +170 vdc on the center pin of Q601....
IF you get -78.6 vdc with the set plugged in & the black lead is hooked up to the negative side of C609 (The fat 470 @ 200 vdc lytic) , that suggests that Q601 is bad.....
Unplug the TV & let it set for awhile....(About 5~10 mins)
Short out C609 (Thats the plus to negative on the cap.....
There may be a hefty spark...
Remove Q601 & check it (Use ohms) & post readings (numbers)....
Check;...R613 & R618...Post readings....

In the same post you have this;=>...

Quote

D621 19.85 to HOT ground
D624 19.32 to HOT ground
D625 19.27 to HOT ground

And right under it you have this;=>....

Quote

D621, D624, D625 no voltage.
dc measurement from diode to HOT ground

And people wonder why TV men drink a lot.... Unsure

....
See both statements can't be true...
ONLY one set of readings is accurate....
In one you say you get 19.85 to HOT ground & in another you say you get no voltage ????
NO readings from any of those diodes to "HOT" ground were asked for....NONE !!!!

Later.....Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Dec 18, 2010, 5:12 AM)

dgentry516
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Dec 18, 2010, 6:59 AM

Post #67 of 84 (1533 views)
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You said,

"With the TV UNplugged , go to D621 , D624 & D625 & read ohms to chassis ground...Post readings... "

"With the TV plugged in , check for DC volts at all these points;=>....
D621 , D624 & D625 again....(To chassis (Tuner) ground)...Post readings.... "

You said,

"Me thinks you did not switch grounds here....
MY bad....
This reading is on the AC side....
You needed to connect to the AC HOT ground....
I should have put that info in the post....SORRRRY !!!......
Re-read it & post info... "

I said,

D621 19.85 to HOT ground
D624 19.32 to HOT ground
D625 19.27 to HOT ground

Q601 base to HOT ground -78.6 (plugged in)
No change when power button pushed.

D621, D624, D625 no voltage.
dc measurement from diode to HOT ground

I understood this to mean….With the TV UNplugged , go to D621 , D624 & D625 & read ohms to the AC HOT ground (black power cable)…

D621 19.85 to HOT ground (ohms)
D624 19.32 to HOT ground (ohms)
D625 19.27 to HOT ground (ohms)

With the TV plugged in , check for DC volts at all these points;=>....
D621 , D624 & D625 again….to the AC HOT ground (black power cable)...

D621, D624, D625 no voltage.
dc measurement from diode to HOT ground

You said,

"Lets check the base of Q601 , read dc volts…"

I said,
Q601 base to HOT ground -78.6 (plugged in)
No change when power button pushed.

You said,
"You should be getting about +170 vdc on the center pin of Q601....
IF you get -78.6 vdc with the set plugged in & the black lead is hooked up to the negative side of C609 (The fat 470 @ 200 vdc lytic) , that suggests that Q601 is bad..... "

The center pin on my Q601 is the collector. The vdc from the center pin (collector) to the negative side of C609 is….

+174

The negative side (black power cable) to the base pin is -78.6
The negative side of C609 to the base pin is 0.

Did I miss something? I'm going to fall off the wagon if I keep making mistakes.

Let me know if you still want me to …

Unplug the TV & let it set for awhile....(About 5~10 mins)
Short out C609 (Thats the plus to negative on the cap.....
There may be a hefty spark...
Remove Q601 & check it (Use ohms) & post readings (numbers)....
Check;...R613 & R618...Post readings....

Thanks Ron

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 18, 2010, 8:02 PM

Post #68 of 84 (1524 views)
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dgentry516;....

OK .....Lets review these one by one....
Look for bold comments as I'm not going to insert a ton of quotes.....

From your post;....

Quoted from my post #62;...

You said,

"With the TV UNplugged , go to D621 , D624 & D625 & read ohms to chassis ground...Post readings... "

"With the TV plugged in , check for DC volts at all these points;=>....
D621 , D624 & D625 again....(To chassis (Tuner) ground)...Post readings.... "

(So far , so good)
The next answer to this is in post #63 which is;=>....
D621 Chassis - band end 4.72k and dropping
D624 Chassis - band end 19.xxM and dropping
D625 Chassis - band end 19.40k and dropping
I assumed that those ^^^ readings were from the diodes to "tuner ground , i.e. chassis ground....
Again , so far so good....

Then you added this;....
From my post #64;....

You said,

"Me thinks you did not switch grounds here....
MY bad....
This reading is on the AC side....<<My bad , poor choice of wording here...... Right church , wrong pew !!!
You needed to connect to the AC HOT ground....<<Ditto......
I should have put that info in the post....SORRRRY !!!......
Re-read it & post info... "

That comment was & is limited to Q601 ONLY.....

Then you said from post #65;....

I said,

D621 19.85 to HOT ground
D624 19.32 to HOT ground
D625 19.27 to HOT ground

Q601 base to HOT ground -78.6 (plugged in)
No change when power button pushed.

D621, D624, D625 no voltage.
dc measurement from diode to HOT ground

This is where things got both of us confused...(I THINK )....
I did not ask for any readings from D621 , D624 or D625 to "HOT" ground....Will explain shortly....

I understood this to mean….With the TV UNplugged , go to D621 , D624 & D625 & read ohms to the AC HOT ground (black power cable)… <<<<Going to clarify this in a bit !!!

D621 19.85 to HOT ground (ohms)
D624 19.32 to HOT ground (ohms)
D625 19.27 to HOT ground (ohms)

With the TV plugged in , check for DC volts at all these points;=>....
D621 , D624 & D625 again….to the AC HOT ground (black power cable)...Going to clarify this ....

D621, D624, D625 no voltage.
dc measurement from diode to HOT ground

At this point , I'm going to skip ahead to>>>

You said,

"Lets check the base of Q601 , read dc volts…"

I said,
Q601 base to HOT ground -78.6 (plugged in)
No change when power button pushed.

You said,
"You should be getting about +170 vdc on the center pin of Q601....
IF you get -78.6 vdc with the set plugged in & the black lead is hooked up to the negative side of C609 (The fat 470 @ 200 vdc lytic) , that suggests that Q601 is bad..... "

The center pin on my Q601 is the collector. The vdc from the center pin (collector) to the negative side of C609 is….

+174

The negative side (black power cable) to the base pin is -78.6
The negative side of C609 to the base pin is 0.

HERE:...
Did I miss something? Maybe.... I'm going to fall off the wagon if I keep making mistakes. << Please don't land on me .......

Let me know if you still want me to …Yes , but , first....Go to the explanation below >>>>>

Unplug the TV & let it set for awhile....(About 5~10 mins)
Short out C609 (Thats the plus to negative on the cap.....
There may be a hefty spark...
Remove Q601 & check it (Use ohms) & post readings (numbers)....
Check;...R613 & R618...Post readings....

Thanks Ron

Lets clarify this "ground" confusion....

Look on the bottom side of the board for a heavy white line that looks like a boundry line & encloses an area....
On some Sanyos , inside that area somewhere is the word "HOT" printed in white letters....
Outside that area somewhere else in white letters the word "Cold" is printed...
All parts & readings that are inside the "HOT" area are checked there with the black lead hooked up to the same point that the negative side of C609 is connected to...
This also is loosely refered to as the "HOT" AC side or "HOT" ground....
Outside the white enclosed area is known as the "Cold" ground & "chassis" ground....
ALL parts & readings are taken from the part to the "tuner" case or similar places that I have not yet told you how to find....
The "Black" AC wire is NOT used for any purposes that would help us....
It is NOT a bonefide ground connection....
Lets verify this by connecting a meter lead from that "black" AC wire to the negative side of C609 & see what your meter reads....
It should read about 1.5 M ohms...
Then go to the tuner case from C609 & see what you read there....
Hopefully , the ground terms as clear as water...
Drinking water that is , not septic........

So , please go ahead with those readings & add this as a last item to check;....
AFTER you read R613 & R618 , read ohms from the base of Q601 on the board to , wait for it......Hot ground.....

Post all readings while I search for a margarita............

Now that this ebook is written & I have carpel tunnel syndrome , its your turn to have fun...........

Later...Ron.M........

Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Dec 18, 2010, 8:09 PM)

dgentry516
New User

Dec 19, 2010, 2:20 AM

Post #69 of 84 (1517 views)
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Thanks for the clarity. Yes, I see the big white border on the board.

Q601 B(red probe) - C(black) 8.56M
C - E 0.L
B(red probe) - E(black) 10.58M

Q601 Base pin to Neg of C609 9.80M
Black probe to base - Red on C609

R613 60.05ohms
R618 60.00ohms

Should be 27ohms (red-violet-black)

Thanks again Ron

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 19, 2010, 2:46 AM

Post #70 of 84 (1515 views)
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dgentry516;....

R613 & R618 are definitely bad....

In the future , when I ask for readings , the black lead ALWAYS goes to ground....ALWAYS...

Quote

Q601 Base pin to Neg of C609 9.80M
Black probe to base - Red on C609

Could be a bad reading...
Reverse leads & post new reading....
I'm hopeing you are reading this with Q601 out of the board....

Acording to my schematic , I see a different reading...
I may reject Q601 as good....
Will let you know soon....

THANKS.... Sly

.....

You might be taking another trip to the candy store....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

dgentry516
New User

Dec 19, 2010, 3:15 AM

Post #71 of 84 (1511 views)
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Ron,

"he black lead ALWAYS goes to ground....ALWAYS... "

I knew that…but when I got 0.L as a reading, I reversed the leads.

Q601 is out of the board and I get a reading of 0.L. Base to the negative of C609

I've already checked to see if they had a replacement for Q601. They do NOT. So if I have to order one, I'll also order anything you think is a potential problem.

Later…Don…

jts1957
Veteran

Dec 19, 2010, 3:34 AM

Post #72 of 84 (1510 views)
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No anchovies on my cheese, sausage and pepperoni pizza. Cool

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 19, 2010, 8:34 PM

Post #73 of 84 (1499 views)
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dgentry516;....

Quote

I've already checked to see if they had a replacement for Q601. They do NOT. So if I have to order one,

We'll try to avoid that.... We'll see if the original is OK or not....

Quote

Q601 is out of the board and I get a reading of 0.L.

Lets chase this for a bit....We should get a reading....

TV unplugged...

There are 4 resistors that we need to check....
They are;...R603 (100K), R615 (15K), R622 (1,8K) & R619 (22K)....
That totals 138.8K ohms...

First short out C609 for about 5 secs....
R613 & R618 are tied together at both ends (They are hooked up in parallel)...
One end goes to Q601....
The other end goes to D610 , R615 , R614 , R622 etc....
One end of R615 goes to R603....
The other end of R615 goes to R622 , R614 & a diode etc...
On the other side of R622 is R619....
One side of R619 is connected to the case of C609 , your "HOT" ground connection...
Desolder & lift one end of each resistor & read the ohms...
Post all readings....

I'm assuming that since you have the service manual you can read schematics...
So , if the above directions are confusing , check your manual....

Have fun...... Sly

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

dgentry516
New User

Dec 20, 2010, 1:15 AM

Post #74 of 84 (1497 views)
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Ron

I pulled the resistors.

R603 97.4k
R615 14.77k
R622 2.0k
R619 21.89k

Don

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 20, 2010, 1:30 AM

Post #75 of 84 (1496 views)
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dgentry516;....

You couldn't ask for better readings....
All OK......THANKS.... Sly

....

Put them back in if they aren't already & re-read from the base of Q601 to "HOT" ground with the red lead at the base....
Wait for the meter to kick in on ohms....May take a few secs....
Post reading....

Have to sign off for tonite....
See ya Monday....

Have a GREAT evening.....

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

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