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Crumbtrail TV Forums: TV Equipment: Projection TV Forum:
Changing CRT Coolant

 

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Crisis1837
New User

Oct 1, 2006, 5:27 AM

Post #76 of 174 (43526 views)
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Re: [crawfishy] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, it is a real bummer!...lol. Sometime this week I am going to try cleaning it and see what happens, Will post with results. If anyone has any other suggestions by all means I am open to them.


ramsquad5
New User

Oct 13, 2006, 2:57 AM

Post #77 of 174 (43383 views)
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Re: [powerdmos] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

hi i think i had leaked some coolant on to the board also but have a different problem...i changed the fluids and turned the tv on it was beautiful, best picture i had ever seen on it, but then the screen went weird..... it look all off like the digital picture i not being projected right, but it is still a sharp picture,.... now i looked into one of the crt's while it was on and the lens is crystal clear but as i see in the back where the image is projected it looks all fuzzy like a bad connection but it is not i made sure of it and i was wondering if anybody in this thread could maybe help me.......... i found a drop of fluid on one little spot an a little metal box covering a certain spot ont he board can anyone help me please..........................


powerdmos
New User

Oct 13, 2006, 1:10 PM

Post #78 of 174 (43378 views)
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Re: [ramsquad5] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,Cool
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by fuzzy but is the image on the mirror correct?
From you reply I think your saying that it is not correct.
From what I experienced, The cables were difficult to remove and there was many of them to disconnect. Make sure the connections are solid and in the right places! Make sure the connectors do not mis-align to the sockets.
My TV worked for a while and died. I used a wooden stick similiar to an old yard stick and poked around and discovered a loose connection in the ribbon cables. The TV started working when I touched them with the stick. Be very careful what you touch with the stick, only touch the cables/wires.
My TV has died for the 4th time since the coolant change.
I will attempt to repair it one last time. I really don't need it anymore. My set is over 10yrs old and I feel the lifetime of the electronics are approaching their limit, kinda like a car!
If the fix is not straight up, my set is going to the curb/dump!
Good luck!


MOtvGuy
User

Oct 14, 2006, 10:30 PM

Post #79 of 174 (43360 views)
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Re: [powerdmos] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've found it's just as quick to remove each tube to do the coolant change on than it is the tilting of the set and sucking the fluid out deal. Not too mention there's no chance of any fluid spill onto the boards.


ramsquad5
New User

Oct 16, 2006, 7:17 AM

Post #80 of 174 (43341 views)
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Re: [MOtvGuy] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah well i fixed the coolant and fixed and the board, i spilled coolant on but i think i might of offset the projectors or something when puting them back in place......can anyone help,,,,, i just got done with the coolant and the picture looks great i set the convergence crosshair and it was perfect but when i when i see a whole screen the top left and bottom right corners are slightly off,,,,,,,,,,it looks like the convergence is not set but it is fine in the other corners and mainly the rest of the picture just the very tips of corners of those spots, as where a football game score would be, does anyone know how to fix that ,,,,,,,or know what it could be,,,please help......thanks to evryone here i have gotten so far with this t.v because of these forums........if anyone knows please reply or e-mail me if ya could
ramsquad5@sbcglobal.net, it would be greatly appreciated....


Mat73GNZ
New User

Jan 4, 2007, 1:48 AM

Post #81 of 174 (42235 views)
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Re: [crawfishy] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone that contributed to this thread. I was able to fix my TV and it only cost $63 and a few hours of labor. You guys rock!

THANK YOU!


gear
New User

Apr 3, 2007, 6:36 PM

Post #82 of 174 (41095 views)
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Re: [MOtvGuy] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi folks, excellent forum here on rear projection. I too am undertaking the coolant replacement task and have elected to remove the tubes from the box. I have only one question.

How can i remove the flyback wires from the transformer?

The wire goes into the tower point on the transformer and there are two little slots on either side of the tower. Are these tab slots that need to be pressed in??

It's a philips 8p6031c and the fungus is bad on blue and green tubes, but I'm doing them all because I'm like that!!

Any help would be greatly appreciated, i got this thing for free and by the looks of all the posts here, could be the best deal i ever made!!!!!


gear
New User

Apr 19, 2007, 5:54 PM

Post #83 of 174 (40900 views)
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Re: [rich32822] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

 Found this article from an Aussie tech, just thought i'd post it here

http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30758/article.html


the dull picture is probably due to the heat transference liquid in the projection lenses. However, if you follow the full procedure in the service manual and order the coolant kit (4822 310 57233), you won't get much change out of $200 and it takes all day make the change-over.

The TV coolant fluid is optical grade (99.5% pure) 70% mono denatured ethylene glycol and 30% glycerol/glycerine and can be obtained from the Internet or by email from sales@matelectronics.com for only US$6.95 (Part No. RCA 212072-16) for a 500ml (approx.) bottle! However the freight is expensive (US$42.20).

I bought four bottles, though three is more than enough and you might get away with just two, which will cost you $A128 landed in Sydney. If you are careful - and care is the operative word throughout all this - you really only need one bottle per CRT. This stuff is not only poisonous and toxic but is also corrosive. If you drop some onto the PC board below you will probably ruin the set forever, no matter how hard you try to clean up the mess afterwards!

So changing it is a bit of a challenge. If you follow the service manual, you will remove each CRT, disassemble it, change the sealing coupler and O-ring seal, etc, and then reassemble it. You will then spend hours realigning them.

Alternatively, you can take obsessive care, do it in-situ, and raise the corners of the cabinet until the face of the CRT you are working on is absolutely level. You then remove four black 1/4-inch hex screws and take off the lens assembly before unscrewing four 5/16-inch nuts and removing the C-lens (round concave cup lens) to expose the fluid.

This fluid has to be removed completely - I use a large pipette to suck it out and finally use a cloth to get the last bit out. You will then find that the front of the CRT is discoloured and will have to clean and polish the tube front with "Windex". The amount of "dirt" will vary from colour to colour. The algae grow best (or worst) in the blue and green tubes, while the red tube is often not too bad.

When you are satisfied the cavity is pristine clean, you can pour the new coolant in, taking care to ensure there are no bubbles. After that, you have to reassemble the cleaned lenses in the reverse order. And that's it - the difference in the picture will be amazing.

Note, however, that if there is insufficient coolant, you will burn the screen and replacement tubes are extremely expensive. Fortunately, this procedure is probably only needed once during the set's lifetime.


brooker32
New User

Apr 20, 2007, 11:42 AM

Post #84 of 174 (40885 views)
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Re: [MOtvGuy] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

Other than the basic connectors what do you have to watch for as far as high voltages? Also if I were to try and change the fluid with the crt still in is the the are I have circled in the included picture what is called the expansion tube.
Attachments: blue lense.JPG (232 KB)


rrobor
Veteran

Apr 27, 2007, 7:00 AM

Post #85 of 174 (40785 views)
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Re: [crawfishy] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

I would suggest to all of you guys getting excited about changing coolant that you understand the dangers of using a highly carsenogenic liquid. Cancer aint a pleasant ailment, I was lucky but if you are careless with that stuff, count your beads, see how your luck is running, or is your God smiling on you.


mokane54
New User

May 28, 2007, 2:48 AM

Post #86 of 174 (40456 views)
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Re: [rrobor] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

The MSDS that I received with the heat transfer coolant states the following:
Mild eye irritant.
Not a skin irritant. Slight defatting possible.
Nausea and diarrhea possible.
There is nothing in the MSDS regarding cancer, but let me make it clear that this is the replacement and not the OEM product that was in there. It would be smart to use gloves and glasses when handling the CRT coolant, but I would be more worried about making a large paper weight by spilling on one of the boards or electrocution then getting cancer.
The OSHA Hazardous components are:
Glycerin - Sugar alcohol
Ethylene glycol - widely used as an automobile antifreeze. Ethylene glycol is toxic, and its accidental ingestion should be considered a medical emergency.
BTW, I changed mine with great results!


rrobor
Veteran

May 29, 2007, 1:50 AM

Post #87 of 174 (40437 views)
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Re: [mokane54] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

Let me make it clear I worked for a manufacturer and we had gloves gowns and masks used when we had to touch that stuff, they took no chances as I suggest they knew something was an issue. If I am not correct the same organisation says there is no relationship proven between cancer and smoking. You will also find those who think global warming is not happening. When it comes to commerse its very easy to say all is well. It took a long time to get CFCs stopped, as did it with DDT. So no its not a fool proof measure to say THEY say its OK. THEY tend to wait for the trail of death before they they act. The issue is you are using a complex chemical which remains the same under extreme conditions so is not easily removed from the body and attacks fat. As such it will attack the mucus membranes of Stomach and bladder. This is the risk you take, if you act knowing the risks all is well, but to say this is nice safe stuff is not on, i ask you take extreme care, no more or less, after all that certainly wont harm you.


ks6gp0
New User

Jun 13, 2007, 5:04 AM

Post #88 of 174 (40228 views)
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Re: [jongb] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

How do you discharge the voltage?


jongb
New User

Jun 13, 2007, 12:01 PM

Post #89 of 174 (40224 views)
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Re: [ks6gp0] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

As I mentioned in my previous post, it is always a good practice to discharge the high voltage that might be stored in the high voltage circuit of the TV. I've done it to my set by unplugging the anode leads from the flyback, one by one, and shorting it to any grounded part of the chassis... this was done to ensure that the stored voltage in the CRTs are discharged... for the flyback transformer, i tied a piece of insulated wire to a screw driver. The other end of the wire was connected to the tv's chassis... I then used the tip of the screw driver to discharge every pin of the flyback connected to the circuit. this is a bit harsh to the flyback, but its the easiest way for me...


rrobor
Veteran

Jun 16, 2007, 9:09 AM

Post #90 of 174 (40157 views)
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Re: [jongb] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

By that method you still have voltage in the tubes, You have a HV lead into an EHT splitter, that is in effect a diode which has no place to discharge, the pins on the flybck have no voltage, only the CRT at the ultor caps store voltage or the mains filter if certain things go wrong there. And discharge the tubes to the aquadag (black paint) of the tube, to chassis can destroy things.


brooker32
New User

Jun 17, 2007, 2:53 AM

Post #91 of 174 (40146 views)
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Re: [brooker32] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just wondering if someone could take a look at the picture I attached a couple of posts ago (#84) to see if that is what is referred to as the expansion tube.

Thanks


(This post was edited by brooker32 on Jun 17, 2007, 3:11 AM)


ks6gp0
New User

Jun 23, 2007, 3:30 AM

Post #92 of 174 (39997 views)
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Re: [brooker32] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

I like others before, took off the blue lens and spilled the coolant onto the boards before I knew there was even coolant in there. After reading this forum, I took out all 3 CRT's, cleaned and refilled with fresh coolant, and took out the boards and cleaned really well with denatured alcohol. When I refilled the CRT's each one of them had some really small "bubbles on the concave lens. I could not get the bubbles to dislodge, so I decided to go ahead and put the CRT's back in. I figured after the set warmed up they would dissolve or at least move away from the curve. I left the set on at least 40 minutes and the bubbles were still there. I put the screens back on the front to see what kind of picture it was. The picture was great except for a line accross the top of the screen (about 1/2 inch wide) that looked like static. It has now shrunk to about 1/4 inch wide all the way accross. This only happens while watching a cable channel. While watching a DVD the screen is ok.
Any ideas on what it is or how to fix?250


bendavis2
New User

Jun 26, 2007, 10:16 PM

Post #93 of 174 (39935 views)
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Re: [brooker32] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Just wondering if someone could take a look at the picture I attached a couple of posts ago (#84) to see if that is what is referred to as the expansion tube.

Thanks


I'm no TV expert, but I recently replaced the coolant on my blue tube. My TV model is fairly similar to yours, and that is right where my expansion tube is on mine. On my CRTs, the expansion tube is actually a plastic capsule (about the size of a ring box) with a vent hole in it, and this capsule has a rubber cup or diaphram at the tube end of it. Theoretically, as the fluid expands, this rubber cup is pushed outward into the expansion tube. The real function of the expansion tube is to protect the rubber cup and hold it in place. Hopefully this may be similar to your setup.
I took my CRTs out of the set to refill them, so I wasn't to worried about taking random peices off to see what they did. I didn't realize until after I was done that there is a simple drain hole on the other side of the tube that I could have used to drain the fluid instead of going through the expansion tube. Oh well.
Hope this helps.


brooker32
New User

Jun 27, 2007, 12:50 AM

Post #94 of 174 (39933 views)
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Re: [bendavis2] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

I would rather take out the crt as well but I am not sure how to get rid of the high voltage before disconnecting the unit. Can anyone give me the general idea how to do this? Also does anyone know of a Canadian supplier of crt coolant? I have done a search but haven't come up with one. Has anyone ordered from this company? Is it a good company to deal with?
http://www.elexp.com/che_5803.htm


brooker32
New User

Jun 27, 2007, 3:31 PM

Post #95 of 174 (39921 views)
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Re: [brooker32] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

Well I ordered coolant today. I searched around hardware stores for denatured alcohol but Ididn't see anything like that. I did see methyl hydrate...would that be similar? If not what has others here used if not denatured alcohol?


Update..I found a rubbing alcohol that is 95% ethanol based with I believe these chemicals added ...methyl salicylate, diethyl phthalate. There is no mention of water as an ingredient. Would this be suitable for disenfecting purposes?


(This post was edited by brooker32 on Jun 27, 2007, 6:41 PM)


youfo
New User

Jun 29, 2007, 6:57 PM

Post #96 of 174 (39887 views)
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Re: [brooker32] After Coolant Change loud POP sound! [In reply to] Can't Post

I bought some denatured alcohol today in the paint department at our local Home Depot, so you might try there.


k4eez
New User

Jul 4, 2007, 1:42 AM

Post #97 of 174 (39800 views)
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Re: [mpj220] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Group,
This is my first time post here, I am a amateur radio operator, not done much H.V (high voltage) stuff all of our radio equipment runs of 115Ac steeped down to 12v 50 Amps DC and some RF tube amp’s are 110-240 Vac with anode voltage 1300> but don’t play about with much of the tube stuff, mainly all Ic’s and transistors (DC) just giving you an idea of my electroncis background...

Anyhow, I have a Magnavox 56 inch, model# FP5240 W101 other numbers are 347H, it was built in 1995.
Well, I never owned a rear screen projection before, and my Co- worker gave me this TV as he just bought a brand-new HDTV and he asked me if I would like it for free of course… well guess what, here it is, it works just fine, however, the screen has a green/blue/yellow blurry effect, and the picture is kinda dull, well, as I only found this post website as of today, I decided to take the back off the tv, and the first thing I did, was remove the black back board, then I had access to the main components of the tv. I found a lot of dust build up on the len’sssss all of them, so I dusted them all off, I then turned the tv on and re focus each CRT, using the focus pots on the multi-ht voltage doubler, anyhow, I re-focused each CRT with use of an old cd cover over the top of each lens (2 covered up at a time), and so had one gun/crt showing at any one time, and once I did one, I covered the next one and moved on R. G. I got to the Blue Crt gun and it won’t focus at all, its either blurry or blurerey, anyhow i did what i could, all the crt's are nice a bright now after a picture tweak tune up, so now insted of a dull screen. I have got a screen on the tv that has a fog or green/blue/yellow mist around the picture but the picture is crisp just color issues. The tv also has S-video input, I hooked up my laptop to it and found a few very good test Pattens,,, I will try and upload it here laterWink, anyhow, the picture would not show white at all it was slight pink, green or red/blue or off white…gerrrrrr

I want to take the plunge and go for the coolant flush and refill and like to take out each
Crt one by one, but there are 3 things that concern me:

1, What is the correct procedure to discharge HV and Static from the flyback cable or where the cup is on each CRT?

2, Once I have drained the old coolant, and if found any micro bugs/ bacteria how do I clean it off the inside of the lens where the coolant lives?
3, What to do with the old coolant?
Coolant info:
Glycerol is a chemical compound with the formula HOCH2CH(OH)CH2OH. This colorless, odorless, viscous liquid is widely used in pharmaceutical formulations. Also commonly called glycerin or glycerine, it is a sugar alcohol and fittingly is sweet-tasting and of low toxicity. Glycerol has three hydrophilic alcoholic hydroxyl groups that are responsible for its solubility in water and its hygroscopic nature. Its surface tension is 64.00 mN/m at 20 °C and it has a temperature coefficient of -0.0598 mN/(m K). It is a central component of lipids.
Since glycerol forms the backbone of triglycerides, it is produced on saponification or transesterification. Soap making and biodiesel production are examples of the former and latter. Until recently, synthetic glycerol was mainly manufactured at an industrial scale from epichlorohydrin though this process is no longer economical. Glycerol is a 10% by-product of biodiesel manufacture (via the transesterification of vegetable oils). This has led to a glut of crude glycerol on the market. Although this crude glycerol (typically containing 20% water and residual esterification catalyst) can be refined to a purified form, a great deal of research is being conducted to try to make value-added molecules from glycerol, as an alternative to incineration. One such programme to add value to this glut of glycerol is the UK-based initiative The Glycerol Challenge. Some potential uses for glycerol include the following:
  • Hydrogen gas production
  • Glycerine acetate (potential fuel additive)[1]
  • Compost additive
  • Citric acid production

Other applications
  • Manufacture of paper as a plasticizer, Nitroglycerin, humectant and lubricant. Nitroglycerin is an essential ingredient of smokeless gunpower and various munitions. Reliance on soap making to supply co-product glycerine made it difficult to increase production to meet wartime demand. Hence, synthetic glycerin processes were national defense priorities in the days leading up to World War II.
  • Used in lubricating, sizing and softening of yarn and fabric
  • Used in de-/anti-icing fluids, as in vitrification of blood cells for storage in liquid nitrogen
  • Patent applications have been filed for detergent softeners and surfactants based on glycerol (i.e., alkyl glyceryl ethers) instead of quaternary ammonium compounds.
  • A way to preserve leaves is to submerge them in a solution of glycerol and water.
Use a mixture of one part glycerol to two parts water. Place the mixture in a flat pan, and totally submerge the leaves in a single layer in the liquid. You'll have to weigh them down to keep them submerged. In two to six days, they should have absorbed the liquid and be soft and pliable. Remove them from the pan and wipe off all the liquid with a soft cloth. Done correctly, the leaves will remain soft and pliable indefinitely.
  • Often used in the preparation of lichen for use in model scenery and dioramas
  • Can be added to solutions of water and soap to increase that solution's ability to generate soap bubbles that will last a long time.
  • Used as an antifreeze or a cryoprotectant in cryogenic process.
  • Used in fog machine fluids
  • Used in hookah tobacco mixtures (called "ma'assel" or "shisha" tobacco), often along with molasses and/or honey.
  • Counteracts phenol burns
  • Now that biodiesel production likely will produce large quantities of co-product glycerine (about 0.1 lb of glycerine per lb of biodiesel), processes are being announced to manufacture propylene glycol and epichlorohydrin, traditionally propylene derivatives, from glycerine.
  • A process has been announced to produce ethanol through the metabolic action of E. coli[8].
  • Used by some endurance athletes to counteract dehydration by "glycerol loading" before an event.
  • Used to preserve bacteria at -80 (prevents lysing of cells).
  • Used to increase the density of samples in gel electrophoresis, making them settle in the wells more efficiently.
  • Used in PCR as an additive. It decreases the dielectric constant of the mixture, which will weaken hydrogen bonds in the double-stranded DNA and lower the annealing temperature.
  • When mixed with potassium permanganate, iron oxide, and aluminum, it produces a thermite reaction.
  • Used in the conservation of waterlogged organic objects (such as leather and wood) to stabilise before freeze-drying treatment.


Danger of contamination with diethylene glycol:
On May 4, 2007, the US Food and Drug Administration advised all US makers of medicines to test all batches of glycerine for the toxic diethylene glycol.[9] This follows an occurrence of 100 fatal poisonings in Panama resulting from a Chinese factory deliberately falsifying records in order to export the cheaper diethylene glycol as the more expensive glycerol.[10] Glycerine and diethylene glycol are similar in appearance, smell, and taste. The US Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act was passed following the 1937 "Elixir Sulfanilamide" incident of poisoning caused by diethylene glycol contamination of medicine.

Any help please
tnx in advance

ps good pdf file, thank you,,, Cool ,,, Also the jpg test pictures you can google for, Just type in the names of the files (one by one) the click on image, the jpg file i have is 1280 by 800 , I can email if you like just let me know
been waiting for some comments from others...............?

7 3
Trip.
Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k4eez


(This post was edited by k4eez on Jul 6, 2007, 12:42 AM)
Attachments: BBC TV test screen.jpg (48.2 KB)
  320px-SMPTE_Color_Bars_svg.png (1.14 KB)
  analog14.gif (4.64 KB)
  PM5544-TV4-Sverige.jpg (28.6 KB)


k4eez
New User

Jul 8, 2007, 8:26 PM

Post #98 of 174 (39699 views)
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Re: [k4eez] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hello Group,
This is my first time post here, snip snip snip- - - - stillwaiting for some help? HELP? anyone hear me? HELP!!!!


brooker32
New User

Jul 8, 2007, 10:26 PM

Post #99 of 174 (39695 views)
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Re: [k4eez] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

 I know you should clean the lense with denatured alcohol and then distilled water. I read that in all the preceeding posts on this topic. I guess you would dispose of it as you would any household hazardous waste. in our community they have days where you can drop off old piant, gas, oil, that sort of thing to be disposed of properly. I haven't tried it personally but I also read you can discharge the HV by using a insulated screwdriver to discharge the voltage on the metal frame of the tv . You attach the screwdriver to a alligator clip, which is atached to a wire and you insert in under the anode cap. The wire is attached to another clip which is hooked to ground. I am going to try it as soon as I get my coolant. I am going to leave the crts in though and hopefully be extra careful. Time will tell I guess.


(This post was edited by brooker32 on Jul 8, 2007, 10:29 PM)


k4eez
New User

Jul 8, 2007, 11:34 PM

Post #100 of 174 (39687 views)
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Re: [brooker32] Changing CRT Coolant [In reply to] Can't Post

thank you for the comments
i thought for sure i was all alone in the dark, sounds good, i would like to keep the CRT's in but i am too you know... just in case it dose spill's somehow, its to bad they did not make a pump and filter for thease things way back when, that way all's one needed to do is change out the bio filter and all is done plus you could cool of the coolant with some small type raidiator and just top off what you need just like a car and install a small fan.... ideas ideas ideas...
anyhow i did have one other question to ask, one the web M&M chem's, site that supplies the coolant, there are 3 types there are 2 singles 8.50 a pop and a deal for all 3 bottles, what i dont understand is the pricinging 8.50 for one and 47 bux for all 3 ??? 3x8.50=25.50, unless its in bigger bottle or something... but what type do i get for my TV?
i have emailed the store 2 times and had no reply as of yet, maybe it just becouse of the 4th of july thing... i just hang on a bit longer come thirsday and i will try and find a phone number and give em a call...
tnx again for the comment
K4eeZ
Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k4eez

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