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Ron.M
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Jul 18, 2009, 12:49 AM

Post #26 of 98 (2047 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;....

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Some sets do have sound whether they have HV or not.

EVEN IF:...==>""If the Horiz out was shorted ""

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Does HOT have collector B-Plus?

I have absolutely NO clue!!!

Quote

Ron, He's talking at the "bridge" (Raw B-Plus).

Yes, I know that....I do NOT have my hands on a service manual yet...

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jts1957
Veteran

Jul 18, 2009, 1:23 AM

Post #27 of 98 (2043 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

If Zenith lit is right: 9-1235 Main 9-1269 Sweep/SMPS.
Shorted HO would open FX3403 (for 130V supply).

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

bogart219
User

Jul 18, 2009, 1:12 PM

Post #28 of 98 (2035 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey guys, thanks again for the help. Here are the numbers on the sticker on the board on the left.
9-1235-2
EIA343
4123m2 13 019

Little more info. In my misguided attempt to troubleshoot this board, I smoked a .47 ohm, 5 watt 10% resistor near where the power cord plugs in. I replaced it with two 1ohm 10 watt resistors connected in parallel. It get roughly .65 ohms. Would this pose a problem?

Any way could one of you guys send me the schematics for this thing?

Can you post pictures on this forum? If yes how?
Thanks

bogart219
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Jul 18, 2009, 3:07 PM

Post #29 of 98 (2034 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

JTS, I seen a TX3403. Looks like a little transformer. Seems like it has 120volts going in and coming out of it, If I measured across the right terminals that is.

Ron.M
Veteran

Jul 18, 2009, 6:43 PM

Post #30 of 98 (2025 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

bogart219;...
1st:..The easy stuff:...

Quote

Little more info. In my misguided attempt to troubleshoot this board, I smoked a .47 ohm, 5 watt 10% resistor near where the power cord plugs in. I replaced it with two 1ohm 10 watt resistors connected in parallel. It get roughly .65 ohms. Would this pose a problem?

Could be a problem,depends on which circuit it's in...

Quote

Any way could one of you guys send me the schematics for this thing?

Maybe jts1957 will,BUT I would NOT reccommend it....See below...

Quote

Can you post pictures on this forum? If yes how?

Yes, using Photo Bucket...Use it here as you have elsewhere....

Now for the hard part:....

I "googled" "bogart219" & it came up with 166 listings...
It seems you are a "Jack of all trades & a master of none"
NOT a problem...BUT....
You seem to want to jump around to various areas without any
forethought as to what the consequences would be...
Example:..The badcaps thread...You are NOT using a logical method of
ANY kind to attack & solve this problem....
Example:..."my misguided attempt to troubleshoot this board,"...
This IS a problem for me...You have created more problems than
what you originaly had...NOT good....
Since you have shown a lack of discipline & a lack of electronic
technical background,I'm very hesitant to be of any further
assistance to you....Please notice , I said,hesitant, not "cease"...NOTHING personal...

badcaps/forum/showthread.php?t=7052

automotiveforums/t880235.html

hvac-talk/vbb/showthread.php?t=53156

For your safety, I have altered the above links so they will NOT go to your threads...
They are just there as examples to show your diversity...Which in itself IS good....

jts1957;.... I noticed you're a member of badcaps also...Good going ,girl...
Perhaps you would like to continue helping bogart219 since you appear to
have service info I can NOT locate...Your call as always....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

bogart219
User

Jul 18, 2009, 7:14 PM

Post #31 of 98 (2022 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Ron,
Your right about alot of things you said in your last post. I bite off more than I can chew sometimes. I'm not as smart as I look. I love electronics, just got a late start in life. Harder to grasp things the older I get but I plow on. I would never even attempt some of the repairs I attempted 10-15 years ago if it wasn't for the internet and being able to get help from guys like you and jts.
I'm trying to learn how to do things the right way so don't hold that against me. Believe me if I had the money, I would of have some things looked at by professionals in their field and practice on dicarded equipment. I don't have that luxury at this time" I'm watching tv on a 19" set now and have to hear it from my wife every other day about my "repair skills".
Give a brother a break Unsure

Ron.M
Veteran

Jul 18, 2009, 8:13 PM

Post #32 of 98 (2019 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

bogart219;....

WELL SAID....THANK YOU!!!
PLEASE understand that I was NOT trying to be offensive,just observant...
What upset me was you went off & did something that no-one here asked or suggested you do & you blew something out...
ie;.."" I smoked a .47 ohm, 5 watt 10% resistor near where the power cord plugs in.""
If you are going to post a problem on ANY forum,you need to listen to the experts & follow their advice as best you can...
Granted there are some "phony" experts out there...
I wish I had an answer as to how to weed them out... Unsure

Quote

I'm trying to learn how to do things the right way so don't hold that against me.

Have NO fear,I'm NOT.... Laugh

....

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Believe me if I had the money, I would of have some things looked at by professionals in their field and practice on dicarded equipment. I don't have that luxury at this time"

As a retired TV tech NOT making ends meet with those "wunnerful" Soc Sec checks , I know EXACTLY where you are coming from...

Quote

Give a brother a break.

NO problem....

Good Luck.... Smile

.....

Later....Ron.M... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

bogart219
User

Jul 18, 2009, 9:42 PM

Post #33 of 98 (2016 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron, thanks for the kind words! I'm a dumbas*? Let me tell you how this all started. About six years ago I started getting these horizontal white lines across the screen. On during a net search on the problem, I came across someone who said it was bad caps. So I bought me a dick smith esr meter. I found eight bad caps, replaced them and that took care of the problem! I was thrilled that I fixed the set.(must of made me too confident). Fast foward to a couple months ago. When you first turn on the set, the picture would be blue. After 45-60 mintues the picture would be fine again. Here I go back to the net. Another helpful soul on a forum said it sounded like bad solder joints on the crt board on the neck of the tube. I jumped into it. Low and behold I found a big resistor on that board loose with a bad solder joint. Now here is where I went astray.
for some reason I wanted to take the board off and "look" at it better on my workbench. I had wire to disconnect. The red one going down to the flyback focus pot. I didn't know at the time that that I could of just pop the cap off that ceramic socket at the crt board and disconnect it there. So instead I ended up destroying the focus/screen pots on the back of the flyback. As you go through life do you ever look back and wonder what the heck where you thinking of? I wasn''t intoxicated or stoned at the time. Am I going senile in my mid 50's? I should of just resoldered that resistor and the tried it. After I realized what I done I wish I could of had someone hit me in the head with a baseball bat.I deserved it. Thats where that resistor assembly came up (rca 169ct) from another poster came in. I didn't know at the time that I could find a replacement for $20. In the process of screwing Around making my own resistor circuit I think( now I know ) I damage some other components. What makes it tough nowadays, in this town there are no more places to buy electronic components besides rat shack, and you know how greta there selection is. If you go online, most of the time, if you want to buy a $2 part there are usually $20-$25 dollar min. you have to meet. Oh for the good old days.That resistor that I mentioned in the above post was open, but there were no signs of damage. I've must of "smoked" something else. If JTS can't help me I guess I'll have to put this set out for the trash (if they take it). I've rambled on enough. Please pray for me Smile

jts1957
Veteran

Jul 18, 2009, 10:57 PM

Post #34 of 98 (2014 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

..., I smoked a .47 ohm, 5 watt 10% resistor near where the power cord plugs in. I replaced it with two 1ohm 10 watt resistors connected in parallel. It get roughly .65 ohms. Would this pose a problem?

Any way could one of you guys send me the schematics for this thing?

Can you post pictures on this forum? If yes how?
Thanks

Board on Right number? (9-1269-02?)
Use "Location" numbers when describing a part (avoids confusion).
Two 5 watt resistors "near where power cord plugs in." Closest to plug (to right) is RX3237 (4.7 ohm), but I think the one you mean is (to left and forward) RX3437 (.47 ohm). Sub will work fine. Is return resistor to HOT ground on bridge rectifier (be sure to check all four diodes in bridge).
This set use two ground systems. When I refer you to HOT ground I need (I'm presuming you have DVM?) the negative lead connected to CX3404 minus terminal (or any convenient point that you are SURE is the same). When I refer you to a COLD ground I need the negative lead connected to tuner shield (or any convenient point that you are SURE is the same).
I do have two sets (of schematics) for this model (inherited when a couple TV shops went belly up). They are on paper and I have no way to send them. If all else fails I could send by mail, but let's see if can do repair over net.
If someone want to teach me a way to post pictures, etc., (that works on all or most forums) I don't think I could remember more than one.
More to follow...

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Jul 19, 2009, 8:52 PM)

jts1957
Veteran

Jul 18, 2009, 11:23 PM

Post #35 of 98 (2009 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;.... I noticed you're a member of badcaps also...Good going ,girl...

Perhaps you've noticed the Avatar on the left and the "Location: Far, Far Away" in my signature?
They both refer to the "Shrek" movie series, specifically the character Puss in Boots (voiced by Antonio Banderas).http://en.wikipedia.org/...uss_in_Boots_(Shrek)

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

jts1957
Veteran

Jul 18, 2009, 11:44 PM

Post #36 of 98 (2005 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

...seen a TX3403. Looks like a little transformer. Seems like it has 120volts going in and coming out of it,..

AC line choke = normal.

Still No raster (No H.V.) HAS Sound? Or Dead?
If you're willing to go step by step, I can try to help.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
Veteran

Jul 19, 2009, 12:11 AM

Post #37 of 98 (2003 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

bogart219;....
1st off:...I do NOT think you are a dumbass....Rambunctious,yes,dumbass, HELL NO....
I , jts1957 & possibly others are willing to help you,but you must take one step at a time ,report your progress & await further help....PLEASE do not go running around like a bull in a China shop & we all will get along just fine....

Thanks for the full explanation in your last post....
Have you replaced that .47 ohm resister yet???

You said:.."""In the process of screwing Around making my own resistor circuit I think( now I know ) I damage some other components.''
I say:...Did you actually make that resister string,hook it up & turn the TV on????....
If so,did it arc to ANY part of the chassis???

You said:...""I've must of "smoked" something else.""
I say;...IF it arced , chances are that something went south...

Follow jts1957's advice...She is a good tech & won't steer you wrong...
Besides , she has the manuals to work with... Sly

Remember one step at a time... Sly

....

You said;..""Please pray for me""...Done!!!

jts1957;...

Quote

If someone want to teach me a way to post pictures, etc., (that works on all or most forums) I don't think I could remember more than one.

I've been at a lot of forums that you can post pix etc...
This forum does NOT have a way to upload ANYTHING to a post...
However,if you will recall those porno pix that Rocco posted, there IS a way to get pix in a post here...
What you will need to do is first scan (need scanner) them into your computer..
Then upload them to PhotoBucket...
From there its copy & paste to post....
That would be the method,however ,I can not give you step by step instructions as I have never done it...
You might try contacting Cubbyx as I think he's the one that told me how it's done....
Have fun...

Quote

Perhaps you've noticed the Avatar on the left and the "Location: Far, Far Away" in my signature?
They both refer to the "Shrek" movie series, specifically the character Puss in Boots (voiced by Antonio Banderas)

We went thru ALL this once before....Remember???

Remember that bogart219's electronic background IS limited...
Patience on BOTH sides is a MUST!!!

Best Regards to ya both.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jul 19, 2009, 12:16 AM)

rrobor
Veteran

Jul 19, 2009, 12:31 AM

Post #38 of 98 (1998 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Sounds like a FET power supply to me and he has been fooling around in the primary and blown the FET. His origional fault sounds like the tube wont balance so it took an era to switch on. Why he was fiddling with the supply is a mystery to me. Anyways I think the guy is finally correct, best place for it now is the trash can.

jts1957
Veteran

Jul 19, 2009, 2:08 AM

Post #39 of 98 (1994 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well YOU'RE still NOT getting IT!
'Shrek' character
Puss In Boots in Shrek 2.

Gender: Male
Type: Cat
Spouse: Kitty
Other Family: Unnamed parents
Litter of brothers
Voiced by: Antonio Banderas NOT "Antonia"
Andr� Sogliuzzo (in the video games)

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

bogart219
User

Jul 19, 2009, 12:08 PM

Post #40 of 98 (1987 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Jts, step by step help would be great! Thanks so much. I can't find the sticker on the board on the right. A couple weeks ago I found a sticker that that fell off of something. I put it somewhere but didn't find it. (will keep looking). The components seem to match up from the numbers you gave me. RX3437 is the resistor I replaced. I have a dvm meter. cx3404 200v 470mf cap, read 1.0 on my esr meter. Thanks for the heads up on the hot and cold grounds for reference points when measuring voltages. I will remember that. When you say "Is return resistor to HOT ground on bridge rectifier" , Do mean is one of the leads from RX3437 going to the hot ground on the dc side of the bridge? I'm going to pull check that bridge again. Will get back to you! There was this number on the side of the right board: 204-2755-09 if this means anything.

(This post was edited by bogart219 on Jul 19, 2009, 12:21 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Jul 19, 2009, 5:44 PM

Post #41 of 98 (1980 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;....

Quote

Well YOU'RE still NOT getting IT!

Here's why;...
I'm 68 years old & gave up watching cartoons / animated movies a few decades ago....
I haven't been to ANY movie for OVER 2 decades...
Reasons:...
1st:..$10-$15 to watch an hour & a half movie too much for my blood...
2nd:...$5.00 for a medium sized container of popcorn is highway robbery...
Not to mention soft drinks,candy bars , etc...

I apologize for getting your gender wrong....
The reason for that has to do with your avatar...
For some reason,women seem to prefer cats as pets & men seem to prefer dogs....
Hence my error....
I have NO intentions of offending OR insulting you in ANY way..
Once again,my SINCERE APOLOGY...

About bogart219:...
He is currently watching a 19" tv...
A 32" WILL be an upgrade for him IF we solve his problem(s)...
I WILL monitor this thread & IF I can help , I WILL jump back in...

TO bogart219:....
Please ignore comments concerning "Trashing" your TV.... Mad

..
There is STILL the possibility it can be repaired...
I,jts1957 , or someone else will give every effort to help you,provided you do as suggested...
Your original problem appears to have been a resistor on the CRT module & NOT the CRT itself , as was posted....
jts1957 can advise you IF you even have a FET in your power supply & whether or not it's involved as I do NOT have a schematic...PERIOD!!!
Do NOT listen to others that want to write you off at this time...
Best of luck....

Best Regards....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jts1957
Veteran

Jul 19, 2009, 8:31 PM

Post #42 of 98 (1973 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Board ID's may also be inside cabinet back cover.
rrobor is correct in that the primary switching device for this supply is a FET (QX3401). You would be well advised to make sure that it wasn't destroyed. (Quick check: measure ohms across CX3404. Not knowing what ESR meter you use, Good/Bad/Borderline is sufficient. I presume your DVM, like most has resistance [ohms] AND Diode check functions - Unless asked to do otherwise, check all semiconductors on "diode check.") If is defective, R3420 (.47 ohm 3W) may also have been taken out.
RX3437 is the bridge rectifier's ground lead return resistor.

Quote

... Your original problem appears to have been (Solder Joints on) a resistor on the CRT module...

Ron.M:...
Just didn't want people to get the wrong idea...Apology accepted. Cool

If QX3401 is still O.K.... What is the CURRENT complaint?
Still No raster (No H.V.) HAS Sound? Or Dead?

EDIT: Also check QX3402 FET & R3415 (if FET bad).
Also be advised: a lot of the heat sinks on this set are NOT at a ground potential - Touching a heat sink to let's say the CRT dag coating would NOT be good!

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Jul 19, 2009, 8:50 PM)

bogart219
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Jul 19, 2009, 9:14 PM

Post #43 of 98 (1968 views)
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Will do. will test and post findings . Thanks guys Wink

Ron.M
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Jul 20, 2009, 12:42 AM

Post #44 of 98 (1963 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;....

Quote

... Your original problem appears to have been (Solder Joints on) a resistor on the CRT module...

That's what I meant to say....The problem was NOT the CRT!!!...Just a bad connection...Thanks for the correction in my lousy grammer.... Sly

....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

bogart219
User

Jul 20, 2009, 2:41 PM

Post #45 of 98 (1944 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

JTS, Here is some of the results I got. Here is a picture of my ESR meter.
http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/bogey219/P1000185.jpg
CX3404 - tested out of circuit with meter on diode scale. Charged up in about 5 sec then went OL
ESR meter read .99 Little high esr but still functional?

R3420 =.7ohms . R3437 = .6 ohms (tested in circuit).

Tested QX3402 & QX3401, in circuit using fluke meter on diode/beep setting. (using this setting on semi conductors as you said).
QX3402: continuity(beeping) between all legs, G-D-S

B=black probe from fluke, R= red probe.
QX3401
G to D
B & R = 2 ohms then OL
R & B = 1.8 ohms

S to D
B & R = .5 ohms
R & B = 2 ohms then OL

G to S
B & R = .55 ohms
R & B = 1.74 ohms

That QX3402 doesn't seem right does it?

Tested bridge out of circuit, tested ok.

Two caps (those blue wafer types) CX3485 & CX3413
near bridge, tested out of circuit. No continuity at all on ohms or diode scale. This isn't right is it?

Have not located R3415 yet!

Finally found the sticker on a heat sink, it is a 9-1269-2 board.
I await your next directions

Smile

jts1957
Veteran

Jul 20, 2009, 10:34 PM

Post #46 of 98 (1940 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

The ONLY parts that you should be testing on "diode scale" (diode test) are semiconductors: diodes, transistors, FETs, etc. CX3404 is NOT a semiconductor! Resistors should always be tested on "Ohms."
I'm Not familiar with your ESR meter. Doesn't advertise "In circuit" or "Out of circuit." As long as you know how to use it AND YOU trust it, all I need is Good/Bad/borderline. I use: http://www.valuetronics.com/...C102&ProdID=8312
Next, when testing ANY part "in circuit" you usually don't have any idea what else is connected to it that may influence your test readings. It is usually best to remove, or at least "mostly" disconnect ("float" so that only one lead is still soldered to the board). If you obtain a suspicious reading, pull the part completely and measure again (you'd be amazed how easy a disconnected lead unknowingly remakes contact with one of those through-hole "donuts.").
Capacitors tested with a DVM on ohms or diode test, at best, will only give a flash reading and then indicate "over range." They will easily find a leaky (reads like a resistor) or shorted capacitor (0 ohms). If the DVM has a capacitor test capability, you can test for value ("out of circuit").

BOTH FETs sound bad!
Retest QX3402 after you've removed it. While it is removed check: CR3407, CR3418 & R3412M (surface mount) as well as R3415 previously mentioned (located immediately to left of QX3402).
Retest QX3401 after you've remove it, while it is removed check: CR3402, CR3417 & R3418M (surface mount) as well as R3420 previously mentioned.

IF Both FETs are shorted, you may very well have blown quite a few other parts in the SMPS, but let's see how what I told you to check checks.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

bogart219
User

Jul 20, 2009, 10:51 PM

Post #47 of 98 (1938 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Will do

bogart219
User

Jul 21, 2009, 1:06 AM

Post #48 of 98 (1933 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

JTS, Here is the latest. CX3404 I would say is borderline. Tested the following components out of circuit: QX402 Continuity on all legs. BAD ? QX401 G to D - continuity (beep) one way, reverse leads nothing D to S - .491 one way, reverse leads, nothing G to S - nothing either way R3415 = (1000k, 1KV), nothing, open. BAD? The following components I checked in circuit. (Resistors and diodes are ok to test like this right?) R3420 = .7ohms CR3418 = .087 beep both ways CR3417= 1.72 one way, .54 leads reversed. CR3407= .481 one way nothing leads reversed Surface mounts on bottom side of board right? Numbers not on board. SMD that has one side going to G on QX3401 (R3418M)? is 98.7ohms. SMD closest to QX3402 (R3412M ?). Not sure on this one. It is solid brown color. There were four other ones throughout the board and they all check the same .1 ohm. The other smd's has resistor bands. Can't find CR3402. Can you tell me some components its near? What exactly does SMPS stand for? Thanks! 

JTS, If I have to test those components again that I did in circuit let me know. I'll lift one leg. Even SMD's?

(This post was edited by bogart219 on Jul 21, 2009, 2:05 AM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Jul 21, 2009, 1:41 AM

Post #49 of 98 (1925 views)
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Re: [bogart219] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

bogart219;....
Well , its time for me to jump back in here.....
I told you I'd be watching....

You said:==>

Quote

The following components I checked in circuit. (Resistors and diodes are ok to test like this right?)

jts1957 said in plain English:==>

Quote

Next, when testing ANY part "in circuit" you usually don't have any idea what else is connected to it that may influence your test readings. It is usually best to remove, or at least "mostly" disconnect ("float" so that only one lead is still soldered to the board). If you obtain a suspicious reading, pull the part completely and measure again (you'd be amazed how easy a disconnected lead unknowingly remakes contact with one of those through-hole "donuts.").

You might want to consider printing out the instructions,so you can have them in front of you when you are working on the TV...Eliminates memory problems & confusion...

SMPS=Switched Mode Power Supply....

GOOD LUCK....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

bogart219
User

Jul 21, 2009, 2:01 AM

Post #50 of 98 (1922 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Chassis number? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi ron,
Question. If your measuring a resistor or a diode right across its body (probes on either side of the component, how can any other components influence the reading? I don't understand?

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