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docdave
New User

May 9, 2010, 9:09 AM

Post #51 of 115 (1768 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

first ron.,m has done a good job of walking you of the problem. as i am an expert on ctc169. ron.m has given you step by step instruction's to fix your tv.first disonect pin 1 of flyback. (is the voltage 145)flyback is (location t4102) i had to go down stairs to my shop to get paper schematic.next tell me if voltage is no more then 145. if more then b+ is to hy and power suply need's to be fixed first DOC

Ron.M
Veteran

May 9, 2010, 6:45 PM

Post #52 of 115 (1756 views)
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To EVERYBODY on this thread.... [In reply to]	Can't Post

1st;....

docdave;=>...

You seem like a nice guy & have been with TV Forums about 4 years , so I'll be gentle with my comments for now....

Quote

first ron.m has done a good job walking threw this....you must follow directions (precisly).

THANK you !!!

Quote

first diconnect pin 1 of fly. we have got to get stand supply' running again. b+ instandby (with tuner ground) must be no more then 145 volt or still need power supply work doc ..

AND:=>....

Quote

first disonect pin 1 of flyback. (is the voltage 145)flyback is (location t4102)....next tell me if voltage is no more then 145.

IF you read some of the previous posts , especially this first one;=>...

http://www.tv-forums.com/...cgi?post=71187#71187

http://www.tv-forums.com/...cgi?post=71122#71122

http://www.tv-forums.com/...cgi?post=71185#71185

you'd see that your advice is old & outdated........
His standby supply WAS running when you posted that.....
Disconnecting the flyback is NOT the answer...
His 145 vdc supply is JUST FINE........
Set would NOT turn on & I have a GOOD idea why !!!!
Needed to check some things first...

SORRY to be harsh , but that's life in the big city.........

jts1957;=>...

From an earlier post of mine;=>...

Quote

2nd;...Make SURE your meter probe points are nice & needle sharp.....

Should have said the same about his brain !!!!........

From yours;=>...

Quote

Reminiscent of B.......9?

Oh , yeah , most definitely !!!.......

Quote

Better yet

- find a fine grinding wheel or stone or sandpaper (Dremel fool, I mean tool works nicely) and grind the tip of leads to a "fine needle Etc , etc....

Hope he listens....

kingm316;=>...
Unless you want to be "pauper316" , LISTEN UP !!!....

You blew out R4001 , & Q4101 for the 2nd time...
You probably blew the IC as well....
You had NO , I REPEAT , NO reason to be checking U4101 voltages...ABSOLUTELY NONE !!!!...

I asked you to;=>....

Quote

OK.....Lets start here.....
Look for Q4601 , Q4703 , Q4704 & CR4117.... Etc , ETc...

See the rest at;=>....

http://www.tv-forums.com/...cgi?post=71279#71279

So what the HELL were you doing at U4101 ?????........
This set could/should have been fixed by now....
Now you are going to have to get more parts & more delays....
IF you fail to follow even ONE MORE of my requests to the
letter , I'm done with this thread....
Do you understand ???......

That said....
Let's move on & fix this TV.....
Recheck Pins 15 & 16 of U4101 for 9~11 vdc....
NOTHING else....
Post back.....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....

Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on May 9, 2010, 6:51 PM)

kingm316
User

May 11, 2010, 2:31 AM

Post #53 of 115 (1737 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] To EVERYBODY on this thread.... [In reply to]	Can't Post

i do know how bad it was to blow the same things for the second time, but i was trying to retake some measurements that were asked for before so i could see if they were the same as before, thinking something might have changed. i am lucky i ordered an extra u4101 from acme and i went and already got new q4101 and r1 and i put them in now, i took measurements at pins 15 and 16 and they were 9.8 and 9.7v. c4007 is 145v and base of q4101 is -0.3v. i also measured the HOT collector to cold ground and it is 143v. i was very careful taking these measurements with new meter leads and taped to the tips. just to let you know when i messed up i was waiting for your next post but now i have put things away so i am not going to do anything until i recieve futher posts so i will not hurt the tv anymore.

Ron.M
Veteran

May 11, 2010, 5:03 PM

Post #54 of 115 (1728 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;....

Quote

i was trying to retake some measurements that were asked for before so i could see if they were the same as before, thinking something might have changed.

Not likely to have happened....
Let ME determine IF anything changed there....

Quote

just to let you know when i messed up i was waiting for your next post but now i have put things away so i am not going to do anything until i recieve futher posts so i will not hurt the tv anymore..

THANK YOU !!!

OK....Now that we're somewhat back on track , let's go & start with;=>..."""YES , you have a different problem that exibits the same symptom , ie , dead set..... Frown

.... """" here;=>....

http://www.tv-forums.com/...cgi?post=71279#71279

& do the WHOLE post....

IF you have ANY problems with that , STOP & post here....
When you complete post #44 post ALL results....

THANK YOU ....

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

kingm316
User

May 11, 2010, 9:13 PM

Post #55 of 115 (1722 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

while just plugged in the voltages were
q4703 B 0V E .8V C 7.1V
Q4704 B 0V E .4V C 12.2V
Q4601 B 5.5V E 4.8V C 12.2V
CR117 0V on one side and 7v on the other side
i pressed power and it was
Q4703 B 0V E .8~0V C 7.1V
Q4704 B 0V E .4V C 11.1V
Q4601 B 5.5V E 4.8V C11.1~12.2V
CR117 0V on one side and 7v on the other side
hope thats what you were looking for

jts1957
Veteran

May 12, 2010, 1:42 AM

Post #56 of 115 (1716 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm sure you mean CR4117.

RCA uses a 4-digit part location numbering system based on the circuit area involved (Partial list):
4000 series - AC input
4100 series - power supply regulator
4200 series - degaussing
4300 series - H. Osc./ON-OFF switching
4400 series - H. Output
4500 series - Vertical Defl.
4600 series - Standby Supplies
4700 series - Secondary supplies
4800 series - Pincushion
4900 series - X-Ray Shutdown

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on May 12, 2010, 1:42 AM)

Ron.M
Veteran

May 12, 2010, 2:00 AM

Post #57 of 115 (1711 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;.....

GOOD JOB !!!!...... Smile

....

I'm not too fond of the voltage at Q4601 collector....
Should be about 15 vdc....
Comes from CR4118 off Pin # 3 of T4102....
Let's replace it....
RCA Part # is;..164590....
ECG or NTE # is:588 OR 580.....
588 being a better replacement....
Please do NOT get a used one from your TV buddy....
ONLY a NEW one....
This IS a special high speed , fast switching diode , so do NOT
just use any diode...
Use ONLY the ones I reccommended....

If he doesn't have one , Google "164590" with quotes & you'll get many
sources to get it from....
Should cost only a couple of bucks from your buddy.....
After you get it , install it & take a voltage reading ONLY...
Do NOT try to turn the TV on just yet....OK.... Laugh

....
Post reading....THANKS.... Laugh

....

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Ron.M
Veteran

May 12, 2010, 2:11 AM

Post #58 of 115 (1704 views)
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Re: [jts1957] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;....

Quote

I'm sure you mean CR4117...

Yes , he does...
In ALL of my pixes there are NO 4xxx....
So he was giving the short version & me being an Einstien Alum , I got it........
THANKS for the rest of the circuit codes....

BTW:...How did you make out with your CTC169 problem ????

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on May 12, 2010, 2:13 AM)

jts1957
Veteran

May 12, 2010, 3:56 AM

Post #59 of 115 (1694 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Q4306 base from micro (and all "On/Off" Buffer/switch chain) would change less than they should (Q4306b should be ~ 5 volts ... was measuring less than 1 volt each time power was pressed).

I decided to try to fire up WITHOUT flyback in the set (bear in mind all I have is the chassis so I can only let fire up for a moment at a time anyway). Crazy

Set would now attempt to fire up three times (as it should) each time power was pressed. All On/Off buffers/switches would toggle as shown in SM, Horiz. B+ source was present. H. drive was present up til base of HOT.

Sencore TVA92 load test showed H. timing and output current bad so I had to pull the flyback anyway. Ring tested O.K., but did not pass IHVT test (25 Volt Horiz keying pulse applied to flyback primary should equate to a certain DC volts between anode and HV return).
New flyback on order, should be here Friday. Cool

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

kingm316
User

May 14, 2010, 9:58 PM

Post #60 of 115 (1669 views)
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Re: [jts1957] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

well i made the trip to tampa and picked up a NTE588. i should get to install it later tonight.

Ron.M
Veteran

May 14, 2010, 11:44 PM

Post #61 of 115 (1667 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;....

If you live in Key Largo , that's quite a ride.....

See ya Sat......

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

kingm316
User

May 15, 2010, 3:28 AM

Post #62 of 115 (1661 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

i put in the new nte588 and now the voltage is 12.7v. no i am not in key largo, i'm just a little south of tampa but it is like 15miles to the electronic store and then 15miles back and just needed more of a reason to go that far for a little 1 dollar part.

Ron.M
Veteran

May 15, 2010, 10:23 PM

Post #63 of 115 (1653 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;....

OK , I had hoped that the new diode would have brought the 12 vdc closer to
15 vdc that it normally is...
THANKS for getting it...
Let's see if the Micro is turning the set on....
PLEASE NO OOOPSSIES HERE !!!!...
IF you do have an oops , you can park the TV at the curb....
You CAN blow the Micro OR the EEPROM.....USE CARE !!!...
The Micro sits at the front top left corner of the chassis....
U3101 & has about 42 pins....
I want you to check the volts on the EEPROM , U3200 (IC) 1st....
It sits to the left of the Micro & has 8 pins....
Check pins 5 , 6 & 8 for about 5 vdc...
Whether it's there OR not , go to the next step.....
EDIT;=>...
U1001 sits to the right of the tuner....
Next , with the TV OFF & Plugged in , go to pin #26 of U1001....
That is our standby for Horiz Drive....
You should get about 9 vdc....
Do NOT turn the TV on....
IF it's there go to next step...IF not , STOP & post info....
Next , go to pin #38 on the Micro U3101.....
When TV is OFF you should get "0" vdc....OR VERY close to it...
Find a way to keep your meter hooked up to pin 38 & push power ONE TIME ONLY....
You should see a jump to about 5 vdc....

Post ALL voltages & results.....

THANKS..... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on May 15, 2010, 11:25 PM)

jts1957
Veteran

May 15, 2010, 10:59 PM

Post #64 of 115 (1651 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Next , with the TV OFF & Plugged in , go to pin #26....
That is our standby for Horiz Drive....
You should get about 9 vdc....

Reference U1001 for above. Smile

Quote

You should see a jump to about 5 vdc....

It will either go to 5 volts or MAY try to go to 5 volts three times and then quit. Unimpressed

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on May 15, 2010, 11:03 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

May 15, 2010, 11:33 PM

Post #65 of 115 (1641 views)
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Re: [jts1957] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;...
jts1957 IS 100% correct.... Smile

.....
See my edited Post above his posted corrections for my post....
I really have NO excuse for that , except to say that my manual is NOT the best , nor are my glasses....
Please accept my apology for that misinformation.... Unsure

....

jts1957;...
THANK YOU VERY much for the corrections...
I'm sure that would have caused kingm316 some grief & maybe another OOoops !!!...

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

kingm316
User

May 16, 2010, 1:20 AM

Post #66 of 115 (1633 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

pin 5 is 0.75
6 is 4.79
and 8 is .04
and pin 26 of u1001 is 0.54
i really hope u1001 isn't bad because i didn't do that great removing u4101 and there are alot more pins on u1001.
all these measurements were taken with the tv plugged in only and i did not push the power button at all.

(This post was edited by kingm316 on May 16, 2010, 1:36 AM)

jts1957
Veteran

May 16, 2010, 3:41 AM

Post #67 of 115 (1628 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

while just plugged in the voltages were
q4703 B 0V E .8V C 7.1V
Q4704 B 0V E .4V C 12.2V
Q4601 B 5.5V E 4.8V C 12.2V
CR117 0V on one side and 7v on the other side
i pressed power and it was
Q4703 B 0V E .8~0V C 7.1V
Q4704 B 0V E .4V C 11.1V
Q4601 B 5.5V E 4.8V C11.1~12.2V
CR117 0V on one side and 7v on the other side

You say you DON'T have 5 volts RUN source (on Q4703 Emitter). All of those three pins get 5 volts from there. On my SM +5VB and +5VD.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

kingm316
User

May 16, 2010, 1:25 PM

Post #68 of 115 (1622 views)
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Re: [jts1957] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts no i did not have 5v on the emitter of q703 when i pressed power, which is what i think you mean when you say run. but those 3 voltages i just took were with the set just plugged in and i did not press power at all.

jts1957
Veteran

May 16, 2010, 2:34 PM

Post #69 of 115 (1619 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Standby (Stby) = Set plugged in but power button has not been pressed.
Run = Only present after power button has been pressed.

Q4703 is the +5V Run transistor. It is turned on by the "12VB" source generated when Q4702 (the 12V Run transistor) is turned on via the On/Off Buffer transistors, Q4705, Q4304, Q4306.
Q4306 is a surface mount transistor soldered to the foil side of PC board (see post #44). The base(b) of it receives a signal (5V) from the microprocessor ("TV ON;" U3101 pin #38), generated when you press the power button (if working correctly).

The horizontal B+ (9V pin #26 U1001 or Q4305 emitter) will only be present after power is pressed (if set is working normally).

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on May 17, 2010, 12:26 AM)

kingm316
User

May 16, 2010, 3:27 PM

Post #70 of 115 (1615 views)
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Re: [jts1957] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

so are you saying i needed to check for 9v at pin 26 when i push power? on rons post he did say to check without turning it on right?

jts1957
Veteran

May 16, 2010, 3:46 PM

Post #71 of 115 (1609 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just offering more detail/insight.
I agree you should check to see if the microprocessor is putting out 5V at either the base of Q4306 or U3101 pin #38 (different ends, SAME point/trace) when power button is pressed once.

With all due respect, Ron,

Quote

That is our standby for Horiz Drive....

This is NOT standby. The 9 volts on pin 26 of U1001 is (different ends, SAME point/trace) coming from Q4305 emitter (e) and will only be there after the power button is pushed.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on May 16, 2010, 3:47 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

May 16, 2010, 7:50 PM

Post #72 of 115 (1594 views)
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Re: [jts1957] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316 & jts1957;....

I have to somehow straighten out a mess that I started.....

What I'm trying to do here is see if some voltages that should be present at specific locations ARE there & IF the Micro is responding to a power "on" request....

kingm316;....

First , lets find out about this;=>...

Quote

pin 5 is 0.75
6 is 4.79
and 8 is .04
and pin 26 of u1001 is 0.54

Pin 26 for now IS OK.....
But IF those other voltages are for U3200 , something is not right...
Re-check the pin #'s & their volts....

Quote

i really hope u1001 isn't bad

I don't see a problem there....RELAX !!!

Post results about the above volts/pins on U3200....
Disregard EVERYTHING else I said in post #63....
I re-grouped & I have a new program....OK....

jts1957;....

Quote

Just offering more detail/insight.

ALWAYS WELCOME , jt , ALWAYS
WELCOME....

From post #67;...

Quote

You say you DON'T have 5 volts RUN source (on Q4703 Emitter). All of those three
pins get 5 volts from there. On my SM +5VB and +5VD.

A little confusion here....
Which 3 pins are you reffering to ???

From post #69;...

Quote

Q4702 (the 12V Run transistor) is turned on via the On/Off Buffer transistors,
Q4708, Q4304, Q4306.

Shouldn't that be Q4705...
Couldn't find a Q4708 anywhere !!!...

Quote

The horizontal B+ (9V pin #26 U1001 or Q4305 emitter) will only be present after
power is pressed (if set is working normally).

100% correct....

BTW;....
How did you make out with the new flyback ????....

Later , fellas , ....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

kingm316
User

May 16, 2010, 8:10 PM

Post #73 of 115 (1590 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

ok for u3200 yes it was
pin 5 is 0.75v
pin 6 is 4.79v
pin 8 is 0.04v
and for u1001 is
pin 26 is 0.54v
and i rechecked the pin locations so i am sure they are the right pins.and again it was just plugged in and i did not push the power button.

Ron.M
Veteran

May 16, 2010, 8:54 PM

Post #74 of 115 (1584 views)
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Re: [kingm316] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;.....

OK , this one wants my sanity !!!!
Lets do this & ignore the readings on U3200....
Go to the Micro (U3101) pin #38....
Read the voltage with the TV OFF.....
Now find a way to keep your meter hooked up to pin 38 & turn the TV ON...
Watch your meter VERY carefully for a change....
You should see your meter go to about 5 vdc & stay there....
If it drops & restarts , post results as to how much voltage & how
many times it does it...
It may be a FAST pulse....
Post results.....
THANKS..... Laugh

....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jts1957
Veteran

May 16, 2010, 9:23 PM

Post #75 of 115 (1577 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] CTC169 Dead set... [In reply to]	Can't Post

These 3:

Quote

I want you to check the volts on the EEPROM , U3200 (IC) 1st....
It sits to the left of the Micro & has 8 pins....
Check pins 5 , 6 & 8 for about 5 vdc...

Q4705 is CoRrEcT - sorry.

Got it, but yet to find free time to install/try.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

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