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kingm316
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May 2, 2010, 5:13 PM

Post #26 of 115 (2298 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

its a craftsman 82026 i picked up about 6 or 7 years ago for doing automotive stuff. everthing else i use it for has no problem and is accurate.

(This post was edited by kingm316 on May 2, 2010, 5:14 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

May 2, 2010, 7:48 PM

Post #27 of 115 (2293 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;.....

NO , OFFENSE !!!.....

That meter probably cost you about $20.00 & for your needs is most likely just fine....
If you'd have spent about $1.50 more they probably would have given you the
dot (.) & the comma (,)....

That said;....
The readings you get & my readings for the 3v zenner diode are nearly identical (Except for the dot & comma) , so the chances are that the zenner IS OK....

We'll wait for a reply from acme.....

I have a problem with my computer that requires about 2~3 hours to just start the repair.....
I will be offline till tommorrow , barring any miracles....

Hope to be back online then.....

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on May 2, 2010, 7:50 PM)

jts1957
Veteran

May 3, 2010, 12:08 AM

Post #28 of 115 (2287 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Come on Ron, you can "wind-up" your system faster than that...

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
Veteran

May 3, 2010, 5:04 PM

Post #29 of 115 (2281 views)
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Re: [jts1957] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;.....

Short answer;...NO.....
Long answer;.....STILL NO

Awhile ago , I picked up a "worm" while
searching for some info for someone on this site...
I managed to get rid of it , but , it did some damage to my OS
(Windows XP Pro) ....
After going to a Computer tech assist website & Microsoft tech assist ,
BOTH advised me to do a "repair" with the Windows CD....
I've done that once before & in the proccess I lost a some of my programs , data , etc....
So , in order to prevent that from happening again , I got a gizmo that will transfer my programs , files etc , to another computer for safekeeping while I do the repair...
The problem is that I have about 10GBs of stuff to transfer....
Even with this gizmo it takes awhile to transfer that much stuff from one computer to another....
However , the instructions are VERY brief & I could NOT get the thing
to do what I need it to do....
http://www.thetornado.com/...de_FD-TUGV090930.pdf

See page #5...

So I contacted them & am waiting for a reply....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on May 4, 2010, 2:27 AM)

kingm316
User

May 3, 2010, 7:04 PM

Post #30 of 115 (2276 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

i swung by the tv guy today and he had a sgsif461 in stock so i got. i have not installed it yet because i think you said there were some more checks to do before installing it.

Ron.M
Veteran

May 3, 2010, 9:17 PM

Post #31 of 115 (2270 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;....

OK .... Here we go;.....

PLEASE use care so you do not have any more OOoops !!!!... Wink

....

Do you have the "NEW" IC U4101 installed correctly....Pin #1 to the correct location on the board ???.....
Do you have ALL 3 caps correctly installed , ie , plus to plus & minus to minus ????...
If so , lets go.....GOOD LUCK.... Laugh

....

1st; ...
We're going to re-check some voltages....
Start with these;=>....
Plug in the chassis....
Check for volts at the + of C4007 to connection at the outside (Minus) of it's can....
Should get about +160 vdc....
Check at pins #15 & 16 of U4101 for +9~11 vdc....
Go to the -side of CR4122 (3v zenner) or the middle pin of Q4101....
You should see a small negative voltage there....
Post ALL readings....
UNPLUG tv !!!
Wait awhile (About 2 hours or so)
OR , IF you have a 10K ohm 1 watt resistor you can connect accross
C4007 (Do NOT hold the resistor with your fingers , it MAY get hot & burn your fingers) & monitor the discharge with your meter till it drops to around 50 vdc , then....
Discharge the rest of the 160 vdc by connecting a jumper accross C4007....
Again , you WILL/MAY see a healthy spark.....
BUT , you should NOT have ANY more damaged parts....

Post all results....THANKS... Sly

....

Do NOT install Q4101 YET !!!!

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on May 4, 2010, 2:29 AM)

kingm316
User

May 4, 2010, 4:25 AM

Post #32 of 115 (2258 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

i double checked and all the caps and u4101 are all installed correctly and i am being extra careful so there will no more oops for me for sure. i checke the voltage at
c4007 and it was 149v dc
pins 15 and 16 were both 9v dc
for cr122 i measured with the negative lead on the negative of c4007 and the positive lead on the base of q4101, which is what i am pretty sure you ment to say, and got .03v dc positive.
if you did mean to check the middle of q4101 i did and got 149v dc.
i think it is only 149v at c4001 because when i messed up and blew the 1.8ohm 15w resistor, i got a replacement from the tv guy and he gave me a 2.7ohm 15w resistor and said it would be okay. could that also be the reason i get the wrong voltage at cr122.

Ron.M
Veteran

May 4, 2010, 7:25 PM

Post #33 of 115 (2249 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;....

OK ....Lets go for the "Gold".....
1st & most important;...
Make SURE the the 160 vdc has been FULLY discharged....
Do it the way I said in my last post....
2nd;...Make SURE your meter probe points are nice & needle sharp.....
3rd;...Use EXTREME care when you measure the following voltage....

Install Q4101....
IF you can safely figure out a way to have the meter hooked up to the base of Q4101 & Hot ground (That would be the heat sink of Q4101 OR the minus side of C4007) BEFORE you plug it in , do it....
IF not , USE CARE !!!!....
Plug the chassis in to AC....
Read the voltage at the base of Q4101....
Again , you should get about negative 1.5 vdc....
IF it reads positive anything , UNPLUG it IMMEDIATLY !!!!....
Post your results.....

BTW:....Do NOT worry about R4001....
It WILL work just fine & NO , it doesn't affect the voltage readings
we're involved with....
The 2.7ohm IS OK.....
So is the 149 vdc....

A bit of warning;=>....
Do NOT under ANY circumstances even think about adjusting R4113 ....PERIOD !!!!...

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on May 4, 2010, 7:29 PM)

kingm316
User

May 4, 2010, 10:02 PM

Post #34 of 115 (2242 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

ok i got a jumper wire and hooked it to the heat sink for q4101 and hooked it to my negative lead plugged in the set without q4101 installed, so i could make sure my setup would work properly. it worked and i checked c4007 and got 136v. i then checked it without the jumper wire and got 136v so my jumper wire was ok. so then i unplugged the set and discharged the c4007 to 0v and installed q4101. i then plugged it back in and the base voltage was -.4 v dc. pins 15 and 16 were both 9.6v and c4007 was 139v. there are those voltages, hopefully they are good.

Ron.M
Veteran

May 5, 2010, 12:31 AM

Post #35 of 115 (2233 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;....

Well , at least we're making some progress !!!.... Sly

....

Quote

pins 15 and 16 were both 9.6v and c4007 was 139v..

Those are ALL good....

Quote

the base voltage was -.4 v dc.

This one I'm concerned about....
It should be around -1.5 vdc....

Let's check the voltage at these other pins;=>....Pins 1,2,3,6,7,8,9,10,11 & 14....
I can't begin to tell you enough to be CAREFUL when taking those readings....
Please write them down & post....THANK YOU.... Sly

....

If you still are in the mood for more danger , (see post #4 & T4102 secondary) check the voltages at;=>...
Off pin #9 there should be about 130/140 vdc with the set OFF !!!!...
IF you can't find it there , go to the collector of Q4401 (Horiz Out Trans.) & read it there....
Off pin #3 there should be about 12/15 vdc coming off CR4118....
Do NOT turn the TV on....
Post results for next step....Thanks.... Laugh

....

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

kingm316
User

May 5, 2010, 2:27 AM

Post #36 of 115 (2227 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

i plugged in the set and now c4007 had 149v,i don't know if it matters that it changed 10v again because my last check was at 139v.
pins of u4101
1 was .02v 8 was 0v
2 was 0v 9 was 1.15v
3 was 0v 10 was 2.4v
6 was 2.21v 11 was 2.39v
7 was 3.02v 14 was .64
pins of t4102
at pin 9 i got 0v dc but at the collector of the HOT i got 143.9v dc
at pin 3 i got 0v dc but after cr118 i got 12.2v dc
i hope these are good results.

Ron.M
Veteran

May 5, 2010, 4:59 PM

Post #37 of 115 (2221 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;.....

ALL voltages look EXCELLENT !!!....
You are GOOD to go !!!!....
Hook up ALL wires etc....
TURN IT ON !!!!
Check out the pix & sound & post results.....
ONE last check or 2 ....USE CARE !!!!
Read the voltage at the base of Q4101 to Hot ground....
You should get a reading of around negative 1.5 vdc....
Find CR4116 or C4141 & check the volts there to cold (tuner) ground....
Should get about 140 vdc....
Do NOT read that voltage at Q4401 collector
(Horiz Out Trans.) or you WILL blow your meter out....
These 2 voltage checks are to be made with the TV ON !!!!....
PLEASE , NO OOoops !!!!....
Post results.....

GOOD LUCK..... Sly

....

Later.....Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

kingm316
User

May 5, 2010, 5:32 PM

Post #38 of 115 (2218 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

not good news. i pushed the button and nothing happened, no clicks ticks or any noise at all. i tried the button and remote but i got nothing. i checked the base of q4101 to a hot ground and still got -.4v and i measured c4141 to the tuner ground and it was 145v. so what would be my next check?

Ron.M
Veteran

May 5, 2010, 6:02 PM

Post #39 of 115 (2215 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;.....

Uuuugggggghhhhhhh !!!!!!!!..........

Double check ALL connectors for a GOOD tight connection & fit....

Later.....Ron.M.... Cool

.....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Ron.M
Veteran

May 6, 2010, 1:41 AM

Post #40 of 115 (2204 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;....

ESPECIALLY the connector that goes to the front control panel....
That is the panel that has "Power ON , vol up & down , Channel up & down , etc....
Also has the IR (Infra-Red) remote reciever on it....
There is a cable that goes to the front left side of the CTC169 board from that control panel board.....
That cable plugs into a socket (Usually white plastic) that could have a bent pin(s) in it....
Check it....
Make SURE ALL pins are standing up straight....

Let us know what you find....OK....THANKS.... Laugh

....

Later...Ron.M..... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

kingm316
User

May 6, 2010, 11:12 PM

Post #41 of 115 (2195 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

yep i have checked about 5 or 6 times now and i can't find anything not connected anywhere. is there someplace to check voltage to see if the on signal is going somewhere? i didn't realize i have not explained what happened from the begining and what happened was it was a friends tv and it worked good until one day it just turned off on him. he thought nothing of it and it turned right back on, then worked fine for another month or two and then did the same thing again, also it turned right back on. then it got more and more frequently until it just stayed off. that is when i got the broken tv and he got a new 56'' plasma. when i got it there was no clicks or lights at all and i couldn't throw it away because it was in a big wood console. it has been doing nothing since. i don't know what to do now, i hope this sheds some light if there is a different problem.

jts1957
Veteran

May 7, 2010, 12:43 AM

Post #42 of 115 (2193 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

You mean big PICTURE of wood on particle/press board (or other man-made composite material) console.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

kingm316
User

May 7, 2010, 1:40 AM

Post #43 of 115 (2190 views)
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Re: [jts1957] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

yes exactly, but it does look nice and i didn't feal right throwing it out. i didn't think there would be too much in repairing it but i guess i was wrong and now that i started i just can't quit.

Ron.M
Veteran

May 7, 2010, 2:57 AM

Post #44 of 115 (2181 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

kingm316;....

YES , you have a different problem that exibits the same symptom , ie , dead set..... Frown

....

OK.....Lets start here.....
Look for Q4601 , Q4703 , Q4704 & CR4117....
Q4601 is a small transistor the sits near the front edge of the board about 2~3 inches katty-wampus from Q4101 (Chopper Transistor)....
Q4703 & Q4704 are larger & somewhat close together as shown in the attached pix/drawing....
SORRY , but that is the BEST pix/drawing I could find..... Mad

.......
CR4117 is near the transformer....
Check the emmiter , base & collector voltages of ALL 3 transistors & CR4117 with the TV OFF....
THEN , push power (On the front panel) ONE time ONLY & re-read the voltages...
Post ALL results.....
Thanks.....

Later....Ron.M.... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on May 11, 2010, 4:59 PM)

jts1957
Veteran

May 7, 2010, 4:20 AM

Post #45 of 115 (2172 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Q4601 is a small transistor the sits near the front edge of the board about 2~3 inches katty-wampus from Q4101 (Chopper Transistor)....

Careful using those technical terms ... Inky's hair's going up.

P.S.
Ron, you may want to look over your earlier posts in this thread. I think your dyslexia is flairing up. For example:

Quote

#1= C1408 , 47 mfd....(35 vdc ??)

C4108

Quote

IF either Q4401 OR Q1401 check shorted , you could have a serious problem on your hands.....

Q4401 OR Q4101

P.P.S.
Now we're getting close to trouble area on one I'm working on currently. (Third time I'm repairing, first one involved parts in primary; 2nd Focus/Screen control divider block; this time Cust says Dead, but power led lights for instant each press of power button and a very soft ?half? click of degauss relay - primary/143V/15V/7V / 5VSTBY all good so far).

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on May 7, 2010, 9:43 AM)

Ron.M
Veteran

May 7, 2010, 5:31 PM

Post #46 of 115 (2150 views)
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Re: [jts1957] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;.....
I like the Avatar kitty cat better !!!!.... Wink

....
Thanks for the corrections for Q1401/4101 & C1408/C4108....
Went back & corrected all.....

Quote

P.P.S.
Now we're getting close to trouble area on one I'm working on currently. (Third time I'm repairing, first one involved parts in primary; 2nd Focus/Screen control divider block; this time Cust says Dead, but power led lights for instant each press of power button and a very soft ?half? click of degauss relay - primary/143V/15V/7V / 5VSTBY all good so far).

My service manual shows that the EEPROM gets its 5 vdc after you turn the TV on....Comes from Q4703....Seems impossible to me...SOOOooo...
IF the Focus block was arcing , you might want to check the EEPROM for the 5 vdc on pins 5 , 6 & 8 to be sure it survived ok....
And check the micro for a power up at pin #38 of about 5 vdc when you try to turn it on....
See if it stays on...
0 vdc when off....

GOOD LUCK......

Later....Ron.M..... Cool

....
Veteran & Retired TV technician

docdave
New User

May 8, 2010, 10:00 PM

Post #47 of 115 (2142 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

first ron.m has done a good job walking threw this.i have been repairing this chassis cube for so long that my paper scematic is so filled with yellow hi lighter for all problem (and this set has had a lot). you must follow directions (precisly). first regarding q4101 (witch is the chopper)sgsif 461. if you don't find a short on part (100 ohms between base and emitter is normal, if you find a short remove solder on base @emiter of q4101 if no short q4101 (sgsif is good). My trouble shooting tech. first diconnect pin 1 of fly. we have got to get stand supply' running again. b+ instandby (with tuner ground) must be no more then 145 volt or still need power supply work doc

kingm316
User

May 8, 2010, 11:02 PM

Post #48 of 115 (2140 views)
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Re: [docdave] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

i have had another problem, i was retaking measurements of u4101 and like someone who doesn't learn from his mistakes and touched two pins at the same time with my lead, i believe it was pins 13 and 14 and it did a little spark. this really makes me feal stupid, so i checked q4101 and r1 and they are both blown again by me. i checked cr1 thru cr4 and they all test 550 one way and infinate the other way so they are ok and cr122 checks 660 and 1550 so that one is also good. i removed q4101 before those measurements but also i took continuity check of the collector of q4101 and hot ground and it beeps once and then goes to about 930, is this normal or did i blow something bigger this time. i really hope i didn't do major damage this time. i am going to buy new leads and tape them up so only the very tip can touch before i start doing anything to the tv this time, hopefully this will fix me from making more mistakes i hope.

jts1957
Veteran

May 9, 2010, 2:01 AM

Post #49 of 115 (2139 views)
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Re: [kingm316] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron, he done did "OOoops'ed Again." Reminiscent of B.......9?

kingm316:
Better yet

- find a fine grinding wheel or stone or sandpaper (Dremel fool, I mean tool works nicely) and grind the tip of leads to a "fine needle point" (approx 1/8"). If you rest this point straight down onto a piece of paper with even a minor downward force, the probe will tear the paper before it can "slip" sideways.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on May 9, 2010, 2:10 AM)

docdave
New User

May 9, 2010, 8:33 AM

Post #50 of 115 (2128 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] rca ctc169 [In reply to]	Can't Post

now he is an the page

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