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Dead Sony KV-32TS36

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Ron.M
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Feb 14, 2014, 9:11 PM

Post #51 of 198 (1744 views)
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Re: [jts1957] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;....

Leave it to ole eagle eye there.... Shocked

...
Got rid of error..
Stuff happens when you are switching between Advanced Editor & Basic Editor...
Thanks... Wink

...

Happy ~~Easter~~ , I mean Valentine's Day to you too...

Have a GREAT day & weekend... Sly

..

Later..Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Feb 15, 2014, 3:16 AM)

jts1957
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Feb 14, 2014, 9:50 PM

Post #52 of 198 (1740 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

ole eagle eye

Actually, it's ol' buzzard (on 'good' days) rotting carcus (on 'bad' days).

Quote

Have a GREAT say & wekend

hope you're just adding and losing 'letters.'

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 14, 2014, 11:07 PM

Post #53 of 198 (1738 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron,

I think no voltage spikes were being applied since the reading I got was steady. Lucky me?

The 2nd transistor was most likely bad, but the 1st one may have been good, judging from the way it sounded as compared to the bad one.

I don't mind risking the HOT, but there's an even chance we'll get the same result as the first time I connected the yoke: instant death to 3 transistors and 1 fuse, which is going to be a set back.

Are there any non-destructive tests we can do first? Like maybe the yoke test you've mentioned? I'm not averse to rolling the dice, but if we're going to risk the loss of a bunch of components it makes sense to do more testing first when I've got lots of free time this weekend. If everything gets blown up right away there's nothing else I can do for several days.

I want to correct the record here. I think I was mistaken when I wrote this last night:

> Let's not forget that way back when I first replaced Q591 and I put the C board on the yoke and plugged everything in it blew up right away.

Looking back at what I wrote before, it seems I only connected CN107 when I got the instant green flash, not the CRT panel. Not sure if that matters. I'm guessing leaving it off is only to protect the C board.

Let me know what you think, thansk.

(paging jts, paging jts)

(This post was edited by CRT_Fan on Feb 14, 2014, 11:09 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Feb 15, 2014, 3:34 AM

Post #54 of 198 (1720 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

jts1957;....

I think those are due to 2 things...
Possible keyboard problem & my failure to check the post.... Crazy

...
All is batter now ???... Angelic

...
BETTER !!!.. Wink

...
Tanks... Smile

...

CRT_Fan;....

Quote

I think no voltage spikes were being applied since the reading I got was steady. Lucky me?

NO , that's not the reason...
The voltage I'm talking about is high frequency (~15Kc) AC voltage..
The base voltage is steady because it's coming IN to Q591...
The collector DC voltage is steady because the base voltage is steady & there appears to be nothing unstable in the flyback at this time..
"Lucky You"...
Absotively Posilutely...
Hows that jt ???.. Wink

Quote

Are there any non-destructive tests we can do first? Like maybe the yoke test you've mentioned?

OK by me...
Saturday afternoon I'll post with the checks...
What time zone are you in ???...
You will need a black felt tip magic marker...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Feb 15, 2014, 3:38 AM)

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 15, 2014, 4:33 PM

Post #55 of 198 (1704 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron: I'm in the EST/EDT zone and I'll be around the house for most of the weekend. I've got a sharpie marker.

Be careful or you might give jts a heart atak! Shocked

Ron.M
Veteran

Feb 15, 2014, 8:15 PM

Post #56 of 198 (1696 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

CRT_Fan;....

I'm on the west coast , PST..
This is a long post that has taken me awhile to compose...
Sorry about the delay...
You should be getting this about 2:15 PM your time..

jts1957 is an OK guy... Angelic

...
He's already had a heart attack (From other causes & NOT me !!!)... Angelic

...
He's in good form..
Not to worry..

You are going to remove the yoke from the CRT in such a way that if/when you put it back on , there will not be any purity or convergence problems...
I have altered one of your photos below;=>...

In the pix above;=>...
Lets start with the green arrows..
Just above them are some black wedges...
Get some "Duct" tape (I forgot to mention that you'll need some.. SORRY.. Unsure

.)..
Put some tape across those wedges in such a way that they will be held in place ON the CRT..
There are 4 of them , so do ALL FOUR ...
Put a black line (Marker time..) where you see the short blue lines..
Put the line ON the wedges as close to the edge of the yoke as possible..
In the White rectangle are centering rings , purity & convergence rings..
Do NOT move those in ANY way !!!
Be careful when handling the yoke that you do not break any of the tabs on those rings...
IF you do , you may need to replace the yoke...
There appears to be some silicon holding those rings in place...
Find a place where there's no silicon & put a black line across them as MY black line shows..
The silicon is old & may not be holding all the rings..
At the rear end of the yoke is a metal clamp with a screw in it...
Violet arrow;=>..
Put a black line where the orange line is ON the CRT fully up against the clamp...
Put another black line across the top of the clamp & on to the CRT..
Its hard to see in the pix , but , there will be a black cross there when it's done right...
You're done marking the yoke/CRT...

Now comes the fun... Shocked

...
Loosen the screw on the clamp..
Try to turn the yoke clockwise or counterclockwise...
IF it is stuck , the tabs under the clamp have adhered to the glass of the CRT..
Those tabs may be fragile & somewhat dryrotted with age..
Do NOT force the yoke to turn...
The neck of the CRT IS WEAK , so be CAREFUL...
Get a small flat blade screwdriver & pry up each tab CAREFULLY all the way around the CRT...
Again , use CARE !!!..
Try to turn the yoke again...
It should turn...
Watch the wedges (ALL FOUR) so they do NOT move or become dislodged..
CAREFULLY slide the yoke off the neck of the CRT...
Check ALL the copper wiring for ANY discoloration...
That includes down inside the center..
I would appreciate a GOOD pix of that yoke,,,
Only one is needed if taken headon down thru the center showing the complete yoke..
Do not put it back on till I've seen the pix...
Thanks...

Any glitches come up , STOP & post..

Later...Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Feb 18, 2014, 8:06 PM)

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 15, 2014, 10:32 PM

Post #57 of 198 (1692 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

> Do not put it back on till I've seen the pix...

Well... see... I'm kinda cameraless at the moment. I did put in an order for a used Sony model at a good price though.

It's probably best to wait on this test until my camera comes in. In my experience it's always more difficult to put things back together when they've been sitting there disassembled for days.

I'm sorry to have made you go through all that work typing it up and not follow through with it.

> Check ALL the copper wiring for ANY discoloration...

What would be the cause of that if found? If the yoke itself is bad, then it probably isn't fixable by someone like myself right?

I'm thinking maybe you were right and I should just hook it up and cross my fingers. Even if it blows up it's not going to interfere with checking the yoke when I can take pix again, I presume. And the sooner it blows up (if it does) the sooner I can reorder the other components. Not sure if I have anymore left.

Unsure

Ron.M
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Feb 15, 2014, 11:26 PM

Post #58 of 198 (1686 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

CRT_Fan;.....

What happened to the camera you used to take the pix in post #23 ???
Can you borrow it or another camera ???..

Quote

It's probably best to wait on this test until my camera comes in.

Yep...
It's better we wait & do this test first...

Quote

I'm sorry to have made you go through all that work typing it up and not follow through with it.

No apology needed...
We'll use that info as soon as you get a camera...

Quote

Check ALL the copper wiring for ANY discoloration...

What would be the cause of that if found? If the yoke itself is bad, then it probably isn't fixable by someone like myself right?

Most likely the windings have shorted out..
It's NOT fixable by ANYONE !!!
Has to be replaced...

Quote

I'm thinking maybe you were right and I should just hook it up and cross my fingers.

Too late for that now...
Let's wait till you get a camera...

I have one more test after that..
& , NO , we're not going to do it till we get past the yoke check...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 16, 2014, 1:15 AM

Post #59 of 198 (1682 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

No worries, I ordered it a while back and am expecting it any day now.

> Has to be replaced...

Do they even sell these anymore or would I have to salvage one?

Will post again when everything's in place to do the yoke check.

Ron.M
Veteran

Feb 16, 2014, 6:58 PM

Post #60 of 198 (1659 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

CRT_Fan;.....

Quote

Do they even sell these anymore or would I have to salvage one?

According to the Service Manual , that TV is about 21 years old...
You probably won't find a new one available...
Maybe a used one somewhere...
I haven't done any research on that yet..
Since the flyback IS available , chances are you may get lucky & find a new one..

Quote

I have one more test after that..
& , NO , we're not going to do it till we get past the yoke check...

Changed my mind !!!
Here it is;=>..

Since you are eager to tinker with the TV , I have some tests you can make while you are waiting for the camera...

You will be taking voltage readings from 3 diodes...
On the secondary side of the flyback , locate pin 6 & find D503 as before..
You'll be reading "-" vdc from the "-" end (opposite the band) of the diode...
On the secondary side of the flyback , locate pin 8 & find D502 as before..
You'll be reading "+" vdc from the band end...
On the primary side of the flyback , locate pin 3 & find D505...
You'll be reading "+" vdc from the band end...
Use pin 7 or tuner cover as ground..
Turn the TV on & post all 3 readings...

Later..Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Feb 16, 2014, 7:03 PM)

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 17, 2014, 4:30 PM

Post #61 of 198 (1648 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Morning, Ron! (I have the day off today in case you're wondering.) I didn't see your message earlier but here are the belated measurements:

Code

  
D502  12.05  |<| -0.038  
D503  0.056  |<| -16.41  
D505  186.5  |<| 134.8

Hope this helps.

Ron.M
Veteran

Feb 17, 2014, 7:05 PM

Post #62 of 198 (1644 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

CRT_Fan;....

I'm going to presume that the symbol below is interpeted this way;...

Band "+" end >> |<| << Non-band end "-"...

That being he case , another good reading in favor of the flyback...
Waiting on camera...
Please post before you start when the camera arrives..

Also , found what may be a replacement yoke , should yours be bad..

Later...Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 17, 2014, 8:40 PM

Post #63 of 198 (1637 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah, that was my attempt at drawing the diode symbol.

I marked up the yoke this morning. I'll put tape on it just before I take it off.

One question: where is the best place to hold the yoke when attempting to turn it / remove it?

Here are some more pix from earlier (I took more than just the top-down view while I was at it) that might help you point stuff out to me.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/wwno4.jpg

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/n1ycf.jpg

This one's a bit blurry but it is a closer view of the top

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/sb4rw.jpg

What kind of price range are yokes in? I'd imagine the shipping alone is pretty high.
Thanks!

Ron.M
Veteran

Feb 18, 2014, 12:34 AM

Post #64 of 198 (1629 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

CRT_Fan;....

The best place that looks like it would be is at the front end of the green arrows below the blue lines (In post #56)...
That should be a plastic support frame surrounding the yoke...
Use CARE when you move it !!!..

In the pix below;=>...

In the white rectangle are the centering & purity rings that you MUST use care NOT to MOVE OR BREAK the tabs (Purple arrow)....
The black line is a good place to use your magic marker & mark the rings..
The green arrows point to the tabs under the clamp that may be stuck to the CRT neck..
Use CARE IF they are & follow my directions in post #56 PRECISELY !!!!

I could NOT find an original yoke or a new one...
I did find a used "sub" on eBay...
The original part number for your yoke is;=>...1-451-315-41
The sub is;=>...8-451-315-41
They are asking $49.00 + $10.00 s&h...

This is what it looks like;=>..
(From the eBay listing)..

Does that look like yours ???..

eBay listing;=>...
http://www.ebay.com/...a792333#ht_576wt_684

BTW:...
WHY is the CRT panel ON the CRT in this pix ???
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/n1ycf.jpg

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Feb 18, 2014, 8:10 PM)

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 18, 2014, 1:15 AM

Post #65 of 198 (1624 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks that clarifies things.

>I have a problem with my "Paint" that I can not get a handle on...

Your "canvas" is too large. Press Ctrl+E and reduce the width/height. Make sure you save the image before changing those values as it can't be undone. When you change these values and close Paint they become the new default values. Play around with it and you'll get the hang of it.

> Does that look like yours ???..

Yes, no obvious differences. Are the rings aligned based on the yoke alone or would they need to be reconfigured for use in a different CRT? Hopefully the yoke is okay, FBT sounds like it would be much easier to replace.

> WHY is the CRT panel ON the CRT in this pix ???

Either I hadn't removed it for the live test yet or I put it back on so it wasn't dangling. I like to keep the mechanical stress on my electronics to a minimum. At the moment I've got a box for the CRT panel to rest on instead. Don't worry, I've never left it on when power was applied.

jts1957
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Feb 18, 2014, 1:16 AM

Post #66 of 198 (1623 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

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WHY is the CRT panel ON the CRT in this pix ???

I'll bite.
So it can be found easily; or So it doesn't run away; or It enjoys having its photo taken.

Make sure black line has a known unchanging reference: "9 o'clock" or be sure it extends onto the frame of the yoke.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
Veteran

Feb 18, 2014, 8:19 PM

Post #67 of 198 (1609 views)
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CRT_Fan;....

"Canvas" ???
I tried Ctrl+E & NO help...
I downloaded a new "Paint" ...
Did not need it...
I copied the image from the thread , pasted it into the orginal MS "Paint" & the white area disappeared by itself...
I then uploaded the pix to Photobucket & replaced the ones in the thread..
So far , so good..

Let us know when you are ready to proceed....
Thanks... Smile

...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jts1957
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Feb 18, 2014, 10:11 PM

Post #68 of 198 (1602 views)
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I copied the image from the thread , pasted it into the orginal MS "Paint" & the white area disappeared by itself...

Oohhh Ron, you are so-oh-oh good! Tongue

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

Ron.M
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Feb 18, 2014, 10:42 PM

Post #69 of 198 (1596 views)
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jts1957;....

Quote

Oohhh Ron, you are so-oh-oh good!

That's what she said !!!...

Later..Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 19, 2014, 1:11 AM

Post #70 of 198 (1593 views)
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Ron,

I don't know what the problem was then. That's really weird. Ctrl+E should work in any version of MS Paint (back to Win98 at least) so maybe you were using a different paint program.

Status update:

Good news: camera is in. Works. Good specs. Should be more than adequate.

Bad news: it's a Sony so it's all proprietary and I don't have a way to get any pix off the camera just yet. And you know those f%$^#$%^ at Radio Shack / "Best" Buy (aka Worst Service) will price gouge. Working on it.

Sigh. (That's what she said Unsure

)

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 24, 2014, 10:36 PM

Post #71 of 198 (1573 views)
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>Let us know when you are ready to proceed....

Camera transfers are finally working! I plan to remove the yoke tomorrow unless I hear otherwise.

Ron.M
Veteran

Feb 25, 2014, 12:27 AM

Post #72 of 198 (1567 views)
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CRT_Fan;.....

Make sure you mark it well , in case it turns up good...

Quote

Make sure black line has a known unchanging reference: "9 o'clock" or be sure it extends onto the frame of the yoke.

Follow jts1957's ^^ advice also...

Take a GOOD closeup shot from the front of the yoke looking thru the center...
I need to see the copper windings at the front...
The camera will not be able to capture the windings inside the center area..
You'll have to take a close look for any discolored copper windings inside the center...

After you do that , I need you to take some ohms readings...
They will be from CN107 , the connector to the yoke ...
From;..
Pin #1 or 2 to Pin #3 or 4..
Pin #1 or 2 to Pin #5 or 6..
Pin #5 to Pin #6..

Post all results...

Thanks...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 25, 2014, 1:46 AM

Post #73 of 198 (1562 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Here's a 7MP test pic I did. Too much resolution?

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/w95th.jpg

edit: you're probably wondering what the white things is. You can see it clearly without the flash. (This is a much smaller cropped image).

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/ptrj9.jpg

(This post was edited by CRT_Fan on Feb 25, 2014, 1:56 AM)

Ron.M
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Feb 25, 2014, 2:22 AM

Post #74 of 198 (1557 views)
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CRT_Fan;....

I'll be offline till tomorrow AM...

Quote

Too much resolution?

Those are GREAT pix...

Looks like the white "thing" is tape holding some wiring in place...

See ya tomorrow...

Have a good evening... Laugh

,...

Later..Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

jts1957
Veteran

Feb 25, 2014, 3:48 AM

Post #75 of 198 (1553 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

I hope those are either dust or paint particles. When we start to see the individual groups of atoms vibrating ... you might have resolution set too high. Smile

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

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