Dead Sony KV-32TS36


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Dead Sony KV-32TS36

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CRT_Fan
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Dec 20, 2013, 10:49 PM

Post #1 of 198 (5255 views)
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Dead Sony KV-32TS36	Can't Post

I've got a dead KV-32TS36. It was on for an hour or two then POW!

The following parts on the D Board are bad or at least highly suspect:

R607 - .1 Ohm 1/2 W fusible resistor (blew in half)
Q601 & Q601 - C4834 NPN BJTs
Q591 - horizontal deflection?

That last one is supposed to be a C4927 but it's actually a C5148.
So yeah, it's obviously been repaired before. That's how I knew to check those parts: I could see they didn't look like the factory soldering job.

I'm not a technician so I'm hoping I can get some advice on how to proceed.

1. Any idea what the root cause of the failure was? I'd hate to change all those components and then have them destroyed the moment I turn the power on.

2. Any other components you'd recommend testing before starting to do the repair?

3. For Q591, should I order the spec'd model (C4927) or the one that was actually in there (C5148) ? Does it even matter or is it likely that other adjustments were made to accomodate the different transistor?

4. Any other advice?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Oh, here's the manual I'm looking at:
http://elektrotanya.com/...-1.pdf/download.html

(This post was edited by CRT_Fan on Dec 20, 2013, 10:50 PM)

jts1957
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Dec 21, 2013, 2:37 AM

Post #2 of 198 (5241 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ho (Ho-ho?) hum.

You don't say if it was an hour or two from previous repair, but I'll presume so.

http://www.tv-forums.com/...h_string=ts36;#76023

You may want to use SEARCH POSTS above (by chassis &/or part location numbers), I'm sure this has been covered at least once if not 10 times.

-------------------------
Location: Far, Far Away

(This post was edited by jts1957 on Dec 21, 2013, 2:38 AM)

Ron.M
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Dec 21, 2013, 3:03 AM

Post #3 of 198 (5238 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

CRT_Fan;....

How much electronic/TV repair background experience do you really have ????...

Quote

I'm not a technician so I'm hoping I can get some advice on how to proceed.

IF you're not a tech as you say , who gave you all that tech info in your post ???...

When you or ??? said "pow" out it went , did you or ??? actually hear that ???..

In answer to your questions;=>...

#1)...
There's a possibility that the flyback may be bad...
There is a way to find out...
#2)...
Not at this time...
#3)...
The 2SC4927 has a "damper" diode built-in...
Does NOT show it on the schematic... Unsure

...
The 2SC5148 does NOT have a "damper" diode built-in...
But , it may be OK to use...
My suggestion would be to get the original type (2SC4927) & go with that..

#4)...
IF you decide to go ahead with repairs , install the power supply parts (Q601 & Q602 - C4834 & R607 - .1 Ohm 1/2 W fusible resistor) & do NOT install the HOT (Q591)...
After you install the power supply parts ONLY , turn on the TV & see what voltage you get at pin #2 of the flyback (T501)...

Quote

Does it even matter or is it likely that other adjustments were made to accomodate the different transistor?

I seriously doubt that any adjustments were made to accommodate the 2SC5148 transistor...

Have fun & Good Luck... Wink

..

Later..Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Dec 21, 2013, 6:35 PM)

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 21, 2013, 6:45 PM

Post #4 of 198 (5210 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

CRT_Fan;....

PS:...

IF you have a DVM , check the HOT (Q591) transistor for ohms between ALL 3 pins..
You also could have a bad VDR & a low value resistor in the power supply...
Put your meter across R651 & R652 & see if you get ~ 6.8 ohms...

Please post results & the answers to my questions in the previous post....
THANKS.. Sly

...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Dec 21, 2013, 8:44 PM

Post #5 of 198 (5205 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

> You don't say if it was an hour or two from previous repair, but I'll presume so.

I don't know, but maybe. I got the set for free from some guy who just wanted to get rid of it. It's possible he got it back from the shop but had already replaced it and never got around to installing it again (it's like 150lbs).

I got only 3 or 4 hours of use out of it before it died. Great picture though!

Thanks for pointing out that other post, it's got lots of good info in it. I'll definitely try searching next time.

> How much electronic/TV repair background experience do you really have ????...

I repaired the IR receiver in a different TV as well as some other electronics.

> IF you're not a tech as you say , who gave you all that tech info in your post ???...

I'm an engineer so I've got some technical background, but as you surely know most engineers aren't nearly as competent as technicians so forgive me if I say something stupid.

> When you or ??? said "pow" out it went , did you or ??? actually hear that ???..

Yup, I was in the other room when it happened and I heard it myself.

>After you install the power supply parts ONLY , turn on the TV & see what voltage you get at pin #2 of the flyback (T501)...

So it looks like that's +B and I guess it should be somewhere in the 130~140VDC range if I'm reading this right, therefore it should be well under 600V even if something goes wrong, correct? Don't want to fry my meter! ;)

Here are the readings on the HOT. Seems busted to me.

B/C: 6.2 Ohm
B/E: 6.4 Ohm
C/E: 0.5 Ohm

I can't check the other components until Monday since I left the boards in the lab.

Thanks so much for your help you guys.

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 21, 2013, 9:41 PM

Post #6 of 198 (5200 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

CRT_Fan;....

B+ should be around 130 vdc at pin #2 on the flyback IF everything in the power supply & High Voltage circuits is OK & working as it should...
IF it were to hit 600 vdc , chances are that you'd be the proud owner of a 32" boat anchor or an interesting doorstop.... Wink

....

HOT IS BAD !!!
I suggest you get the original 2SC4927 & start with that..
PLEASE check those 2 resistors in the power supply I asked you to check..
IF bad , they could blow the new C4834 transistors..

Quote

therefore it should be well under 600V even if something goes wrong, correct? Don't want to fry my meter! ;)

I don't see a way in the world that you'd get anywhere near 600 vdc !!!!..
No worries there..

The plan here is:=>...
Check the parts in the power supply that I asked for....
IF you decide to go ahead with repairs , replace the bad power supply parts ONLY..
Turn on the TV & check for proper power supply voltage at the flyback...
IF all goes well , discharge the 130~140 vdc at the flyback , install the new HOT & PRAY like hell that the flyback is OK & the TV works OK.... Smile

..

I'll be waiting for results on those 2 resistors Monday...
IF one or both (Rarely) resistors turn up bad , you'll have to get the VDR ...

Parts for this repair shouild run around 10~15 USD + shipping...

Have a great day & weekend... Sly

...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Dec 21, 2013, 11:00 PM

Post #7 of 198 (5196 views)
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Sounds like a plan. Much appreciated, Ron.

One question: will I need to have the CRT connected to check anything or can I just work with the boards themselves until the repairs are complete?

> Have a great day & weekend... Sly

...

You too :)

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 22, 2013, 2:26 AM

Post #8 of 198 (5192 views)
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CRT_Fan;....

You can fix the power supply & check for the 130 vdc at the flyback without the CRT connected...
After/IF it passes that test , you'll need to have the CRT & the yoke connected to see if the flyback is good or not...

Later...Ron.M.... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Dec 23, 2013, 11:03 PM

Post #9 of 198 (5168 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

VDR resisters seem OK. Measured 7 or 8 Ohms.

Went ahead with the power supply repair (R607, Q601 & Q602) and it didn't blow up.

Tried measuring +B but wasn't getting much until I put a few of the subboards back in. I think one of them controls the power standby function.

Tried again and got ~135V on FBT pin 2!

Okay! So now I'm just waiting on the new HOT to arrive. Any more tests I can run in the meantime?

If the flyback is bad, do you think it will take out the HOT and power supply transistors again?

I did some checking over the weekend and the spec FBT is expensive, but there are subs that are reasonably priced. I'm willing to try replacing it, assuming that a compatible replacement can simply be dropped in...

I'll probably have more to report before New Years, but have a Merry Christmas just in case!

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 24, 2013, 12:28 AM

Post #10 of 198 (5161 views)
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CRT_Fan;...

Good show,that's progress...

""Any more tests I can run in the meantime?""
No...

""If the flyback is bad, do you think it will take out the HOT and power supply transistors again?""
Most likely , yes..
IF you hear a "POW" , then most likely power supply is toast again... Unsure

Just be quick with the AC cord, VERRRY QUICK !!!..

Just curious...
Was the HOT physically damaged when you took it out ???

While waiting for the new HOT , check around the top area of the flyback for any signs of arcing , burn trails etc...
Look into the gap area at the core for any signs of arcing...
Take a close look at the thick red wire coming out the top for a pinhole that may have a slight burn around the hole..
Usually about 2~5 inches above the top of the flyback is where that occurs..
Also take a close look at where the red wire goes into the CRT..
Look for a burn trail coming out from under the rubber cup ^^^ to the gray coating on the side of the CRT...
IF you see ANY indications of arcing or burn trails , flyback will be bad....
EXCEPT for the rubber cup..
That can be replaced..

When you get the new HOT & install it , do the following;=>..
Presuming you did NOT hear a loud "POW" , let the TV run for 15 seconds & turn it OFF ...
Unplug the TV & using a finger , test the temperature of the HOT by placing your finger on the number side of the transistor...
If it is warm & NOT hot , repeat the test & leave the TV on for 30 seconds..
If it is warm & NOT hot , repeat the test & leave the TV on for a full minute..
If it is warm & NOT hot , repeat the test & leave the TV on for 5 full minutes..
Check it again...
If it is warm & NOT hot , repeat the test & leave the TV on for 15~20 full minutes..
Check it again...
If it is warm & NOT hot , chances are that the flyback is good & the subbed HOT was the culprit ... Smile

....

I'm NOT a fan of subbing flybacks no matter how good they are..
Always seem to have side effects..
Not worth the savings you get..
IF you can afford it , I'd recommend you get the original...

Merry Christmas to you & your loved ones also...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Dec 24, 2013, 1:11 AM

Post #11 of 198 (5159 views)
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Re: [Ron.M] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

> Was the HOT physically damaged when you took it out ???

Not the package, but there was some discoloration possibly burns at the top of the three leads. I didn't notice anything wrong with the flyback but I'll check it more closely based on your instructions.

You said the CRT/yoke needs to be connected to test the flyback, and I'll do that, but is it safe to power the boards up without the CRT just to make sure everything still works after installing the HOT?

Hopefully I won't need to replace the FBT since the -11 (original Sony P/N) is $110~$170. The -21 is only $25~$40 (UED or "Sony" branding - not sure I trust that though...) and is listed as a sub a couple of places. Fingers crossed...

Thanks again for your help.

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 24, 2013, 3:13 AM

Post #12 of 198 (5152 views)
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CRT_Fan;...

""You said the CRT/yoke needs to be connected to test the flyback, and I'll do that, but is it safe to power the boards up without the CRT just to make sure everything still works after installing the HOT?""
You can , but you will not get full high voltage as the yoke & the flyback work together to get about 30KV for the CRT anode ...
More likely you'll get 10~15KV..
(I'm using IE8 as my browser & some of the features do not work here , "B" Bold , "I" Italic , "U" Underline & ALL the other bells & whistles on the top of the reply box, including "Quote"..)

EDIT for the previous post;=>>..
When you get the new HOT & install it , leave the yoke unplugged ...
Also remove the CRT panel from the rear of the CRT & hang it in space away from the CRT & other wiring , metal etc..
Turn on the TV & listen carefully for a hissing or crackling noise..
IF you do , IMMEDIATELY unplug the TV..
In a darkened room , turn on the TV again & see if you can see where the set is hissing or crackling from..
IF there is NO hissing or crackling , go ahead & plug in the yoke...
Again , turn on the TV & be ready to QUICKLY unplug the TV if you hear even the slightest hissing or crackling..
Please post results..

When it comes to subbing the flyback...
It's your TV....
It's your money...
It's your call....

Good Luck... Sly

...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

mel
Veteran

Dec 24, 2013, 11:26 PM

Post #13 of 198 (5138 views)
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Re: [CRT_Fan] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Sony is one brand that it is never a good idea to use a non Sony flyback.

hov6472
New User

Dec 25, 2013, 11:38 PM

Post #14 of 198 (5124 views)
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Re: [mel] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

I would get my replacement parts from a good supplier
like B&D electronics.
Hoover Tv
15832 Warren Ave
Detroit Mi.
313 582 4200- hov6472@gmail.com

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 27, 2013, 7:56 PM

Post #15 of 198 (5091 views)
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Re: [mel] Dead Sony KV-32TS36 [In reply to]	Can't Post

mel;...

I agree !!!
I have an update for that....
(Sexy bitch , ^^^ , aint she ???)... Shocked

....

CRT_Fan;...

Some updates for you;...

Quote

Hopefully I won't need to replace the FBT since the -11 (original Sony P/N) is $110~$170. The -21 is only $25~$40 (UED or "Sony" branding - not sure I trust that though...) and is listed as a sub a couple of places. Fingers crossed...

Found some data that suggests you are right !!!
Here are 2 good sources for a replacement should you need a new flyback;=>...
eBay;...

http://www.ebay.com/...;hash=item1c3a6af06d
$39.95
1-453-146-21
That is a "Sony" replacement for a "Sony" flyback & you should be OK with it...

IF you want the original;=>...
Sony Flyback 1-453-146-11
http://www.technotronic-dimensions.com/Products2.html
$59.99 In stock
Also a "Sony"..

Also some more to check on the TV;..
Check & resolder the 4 pins on "H Driver transformer" T502...
Also find & check/replace C522 ( 0.047 @ 200 vdc)..
"C522" is located at the rear corner away from the flyback next to T502...
It is a small lytic cap...
When this cap fails , it causes the HOT (transistor) to run hot & eventually short out & takes out the power supply...
Sound familiar ???

Have a VERRRY HAPPY , HEALTHY , SANE , SOBER (???) & PROSPEROUS New Year !!! Shocked

Later...Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Dec 27, 2013, 8:02 PM)

CRT_Fan
User

Dec 27, 2013, 11:54 PM

Post #16 of 198 (5084 views)
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Mel: Okay I'll accept no substitutes! (manufacturers anyway)

Hov6472: Do you have a link for B&D?

Ron:

C522 is good. Had to desolder one of the legs to get the 48nF reading.

T502 pins look good. Resin residue suggests it's been replaced or resoldered already. Same thing with a few other components nearby such as Q502 and C523. Q502 doesn't have any shorts.

HOT came in and I installed it.

>When you get the new HOT & install it , leave the yoke unplugged ...
>Also remove the CRT panel from the rear of the CRT & hang it in space away from the CRT & other wiring , metal etc..
>Turn on the TV & listen carefully for a hissing or crackling noise..

I was able to detach the C Board from the CRT, but I need some more clarification.

Attached to the yoke / C Board are the following connectors. Which ones should be connected or left disconnected?

Two large connectors, go to D Board
"DY-2" 3-pin connector, goes to Dynamic Conv. board
Thick gray wire which goes to FBT.

There is also the FBT anode which I presume should be connected for this initial test, right?

There are 4 other connectors coming from the bottom of the case which I suspect are irrelevant for now (switches, speakers, degaussing coil, etc.)

Thanks for the parts info. $60 is right on the edge of an "easy call" for me and $40 is even better.

> Sexy bitch , ^^^ , aint she ???)...

My first thought was it must be spam due to the pic but then I realized it's probably his wife!

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 28, 2013, 2:37 AM

Post #17 of 198 (5076 views)
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CRT_Fan;....

From what I can tell , just leave the "C" panel with all the connectors on it in place hanging in space away from the CRT & other wiring , metal , etc ...

Quote

Two large connectors, go to D Board

One of those 2 connectors should have 6 wires in it from the yoke & go to CN107 on the "D" board..
The ONLY connector that needs to be disconnected from the yoke is "CN107" which you should have no trouble finding..
When you run this test , do it quickly...
IF there's NO hissing or "POW" , reconnect the yoke & PLEASE do all the other tests IN SEQUENCE & post results...
THANKS !!!!. Smile

...

Quote

There is also the FBT anode which I presume should be connected for this initial test, right?

Yes...
You'll want to see if there is any arcing or a "POW" coming from the connection at the side of the CRT where the rubber cup is..

Later...Ron.M... Cool

...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Dec 28, 2013, 3:12 AM

Post #18 of 198 (5073 views)
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Uh oh. I turned it on briefly three times and there is definitely some sort of noise coming from the end of the little tube. It persists for a while after turning off.

I also saw a small spark on the first or second try. It appeared to be in the copper wiring area, but I'm not certain. There is also some lingering general static electricity-like small popping noises around the big tube, I think.

There were no POWs or other loud sounds, but soft hissing/crackling is probably an accurate description.

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 28, 2013, 4:45 AM

Post #19 of 198 (5067 views)
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CRT_Fan;...

Quote

there is definitely some sort of noise coming from the end of the little tube.

WHAT LITTLE TUBE ????.. Unimpressed

..
There is ONLY 1 tube in your TV & that's the CRT !!!!..

Quote

I also saw a small spark on the first or second try. It appeared to be in the copper wiring area, but I'm not certain.

Do NOT connect the yoke till we figure this out....
Try turning the TV on again & quickly see if you can get a better location of the sparking..

Quote

There is also some lingering general static electricity-like small popping noises around the big tube, I think.

That may be normal discharge of the anode high voltage..
Without the yoke connected , you are probably getting around 15 KV which most likely is finding a way to hiss &/or crackle..

Will be offline till Sat AM...
Have a good evening.. Sly

..

IF needed , can you take & post pix ???

Later...Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Dec 28, 2013, 4:43 PM

Post #20 of 198 (5058 views)
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Before I went to bed last night I decided to try it again. I turned it off/on several times and left it on for longer periods. There were no bad sounds and it never sparked again. I realized that the crackling coming from the tapered end of the tube was just static discharge because I could only here it when I got close and it got louder the closer I got. I also checked the yoke area where I saw the single spark and there were no signs of burning or damage.

So I decided to plug in the yoke and turn it on. Saw a green flash in the power supply area and immediately turn it back off.

This morning I checked and the same components got taken out again.

Time to order a new flyback?

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 28, 2013, 6:29 PM

Post #21 of 198 (5056 views)
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CRT_Fan;...

Quote

Time to order a new flyback?

Looks that way to me...

PLEASE NO generic !!!

Good Luck...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

Ron.M
Veteran

Dec 30, 2013, 6:45 PM

Post #22 of 198 (5037 views)
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CRT_Fan;...

Quote

IF needed , can you take & post pix ???

The time has come for pix...
Can you do it????
Need pix of CRT neck & close-up of yoke looking from top down ...
When you get the flyback in , please do NOT install it...
PLEASE wait for my go ahead...
I/we have a few more things to look at...

THANKS...

Later...Ron.M... Cool

..
Veteran & Retired TV technician

CRT_Fan
User

Jan 3, 2014, 2:00 AM

Post #23 of 198 (5009 views)
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Happy New Year Ron!

Sorry it took so long. Lotta stuff happening, some of it not so good...

I haven't actually ordered the FBT yet. I'm going to be out of town for a few weeks at some point in the near future for unplanned reasons but I don't have an exact date yet and I don't want it to arrive when I'm gone. It's possible I won't be able to install the FBT for several weeks, but rest assured I'm still committed to fixing this thing. I might be able to reinstall the rest of the parts before I leave though.

Here are some pics. Click the links for fullsize.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/55g7s

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/mzzsc.jpg

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/gawx5.jpg

Ron.M
Veteran

Jan 3, 2014, 6:51 PM

Post #24 of 198 (4995 views)
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CRT_Fan;....

Happy New Year to you ,again...

Thanks for the great pix...
Will be using them when you return...

Do NOT order the flyback till we check out some other possibilities...

We'll put this thread on hold till you get back & make a post so I get notification that you are back...

I sincerely hope that all goes well for you...

GOOD LUCK....

Have a great day & wekend.... Sly

....

Later...Ron.M...
Veteran & Retired TV technician

(This post was edited by Ron.M on Jan 9, 2014, 6:52 PM)

CRT_Fan
User

Feb 1, 2014, 5:09 PM

Post #25 of 198 (4854 views)
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Hello Ron, long time no see eh?

I'm finally back and able to do some repair work again.

Current status is: replaced the two power transistors, fusible resistor, and HOT again. Got 134V at +B when I plugged it in.

One odd thing, it sounds different when you first turn it on, a kind of rough mid-range frequency. After several seconds of operation it sort of of smooths out to the soft high-pitch sound that I was expecting from last time (I guess that's the 15khz sound the HOT makes.) If I leave it unplugged for a few minutes it will start doing the rough sound again. Don't know if this is a symptom of a problem or not.

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